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Old 02-11-2013, 09:31 PM   #1
tod701 OP
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HB1632 - ATV road use

HB1632 creates a new "wheeled all terrain vehicle" catagory.
That will allow certain ATV the priviledge of driving on certain roads.

But there are a few concerns, here is just one for now.


Section 8 allows for a $500 traffic ticket for doing anything inconsistent with local land management requirements.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1632&year=2013

Along a multitude of none codified requirement, consider anything done on DNR managed public land contrary to WAC332-52 while operation an "wheeled all-terrain vehicle" qualifies for that penalty.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=332-52

I haven't gone line by line yet, but it does include parking anywhere in a developed recreation are not specifically designated for such use.

In other words, park your "wheeled all-terrain vehicle" anywhere in a campground or trailhead other than a parking lot or your campsite = $500 traffic ticket.

Then unless the DNR has specifically designated otherwise, parking more than two passenger vehicles in a campsite is another crime and if your newly designated "wheeled all-terrain vehicle" can legally passenger it counts against your limit of two passenger vehicles. Go over the limit, $500.

If someone accuses you of not yielding to a pedestrian that could cost you another $500.

Not having headlights on, on a trail or anywhere else when visibility is less than two hundred feet due to terrain, darkness, dust, smoke, fog or other weather or atmospheric conditions is another $500 even if your "wheeled all-terrain vehicle" is not licensed for road use or even if it does not have headlights.

Going too fast on a trail = another $500, even if no speed limit exists.
This should finish off all racing on State managed public land.

If DNR policy requires you to have a Discover Pass or ORV and you don't or yours is expired, $500.
And probably more things too.

And what do you get in return?
Certain quads will be able to have limited access to drive on certain roads.

There are more things that I do not like, but I thought that I'd share one section with you tonight.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:20 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tod701 View Post
HB1632 creates a new "wheeled all terrain vehicle" catagory.
That will allow certain ATV the priviledge of driving on certain roads.

But there are a few concerns, here is just one for now.


Section 8 allows for a $500 traffic ticket for doing anything inconsistent with local land management requirements.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1632&year=2013

Along a multitude of none codified requirement, consider anything done on DNR managed public land contrary to WAC332-52 while operation an "wheeled all-terrain vehicle" qualifies for that penalty.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=332-52

I haven't gone line by line yet, but it does include parking anywhere in a developed recreation are not specifically designated for such use.

In other words, park your "wheeled all-terrain vehicle" anywhere in a campground or trailhead other than a parking lot or your campsite = $500 traffic ticket.

Then unless the DNR has specifically designated otherwise, parking more than two passenger vehicles in a campsite is another crime and if your newly designated "wheeled all-terrain vehicle" can legally passenger it counts against your limit of two passenger vehicles. Go over the limit, $500.

If someone accuses you of not yielding to a pedestrian that could cost you another $500.

Not having headlights on, on a trail or anywhere else when visibility is less than two hundred feet due to terrain, darkness, dust, smoke, fog or other weather or atmospheric conditions is another $500 even if your "wheeled all-terrain vehicle" is not licensed for road use or even if it does not have headlights.

Going too fast on a trail = another $500, even if no speed limit exists.
This should finish off all racing on State managed public land.

If DNR policy requires you to have a Discover Pass or ORV and you don't or yours is expired, $500.
And probably more things too.

And what do you get in return?
Certain quads will be able to have limited access to drive on certain roads.

There are more things that I do not like, but I thought that I'd share one section with you tonight.
If the bill could clean up those and other pieces AND then provide for two wheeled ORV use of said roads we may have ourselves something to consider. As it sits now it appears unworthy of support/consideration.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:29 PM   #3
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So, quad users won't be able to do virtually anything they like on public land without
possible legal consequences ?


Better call up Gerry Spence and F. Lee Bailey, and get them on the case, because
Amerkun freedoms to act without consideration for the rights and safety of others are
endangered by the proposed legislation



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Old 02-11-2013, 10:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
So, quad users won't be able to do whatever they like on public land without
possible legal consequences ?.
That is the up-side

Allowing ORV owners to be singled out for criminal penalties based on unaccountable third parties is the down-side.

If that is a good plan why don't we apply it to all visitors to state managed public land?
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tod701 View Post

Allowing ORV owners to be singled out for criminal penalties based on unaccountable third parties is the down-side.

Honestly I am not sure what you mean by "unaccountable third parties". Do you mean
that the cops will penalize the wrong person because they didn't know who the actual
offender was ? Please explain.


I've been around long enough to know that when one is in public places life
always involves compromises. Without compromise, one faction will be happy
and the rest will be miserable. The problem is, who gets to decide which faction
gets to be miserable or which faction gets to be happy at the expense of others ?
I think any rational person can understand that such extremes won't work well for
long. So as distasteful as it might be, compromises tend to be the best solution
for the real world.


The government is probably going to come up with stupid stuff ( this is what
governments are good at ) unless someone steps in and points out there is a
better way and does it in a manner which doesn't alienate the government representative.
I don't know the situation in your neck of the woods well enough to know whether the
powersports industry has people who can work closely with the legislators or not, but
it's obviously in the interest of the powersports industry to do so, because if the rules
become too restrictive people will quit riding and that means they will quit buying bikes.



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Old 02-12-2013, 07:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
Honestly I am not sure what you mean by "unaccountable third parties". Do you mean
that the cops will penalize the wrong person because they didn't know who the actual
offender was ? Please explain.
.
It means that anybody that wants to can take a photo of you, claim you did something illegal (like parking illegally), turn it over to the cops, they write you a $500 traffic ticket and then you have to prove you didn't do anything wrong.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:45 AM   #7
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Sounds like a bad bill.

How do we help stop it?
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by wbedient View Post
Sounds like a bad bill.

How do we help stop it?
Contact your legislators and tell them to vote NO on this bill!

Doesnt this infringe on our right to a fair trial since we can be issued an infraction without law enforcment actually seeing it, making us guilty until proven innocent?
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Doesnt this infringe on our right to a fair trial since we can be issued an infraction without law enforcment actually seeing it, making us guilty until proven innocent?
HB1632 Section 8 reads as follows, but may be amended to change "operator" to "registered owner":

(1) A person who operates a wheeled all-terrain vehicle upon public lands must do so consistent with the local land management requirements or the emergency exceptions under RCW 46.09.420.

(2) A violation of this section is a traffic infraction with a penalty of up to five hundred dollars.

(3) Any law enforcement officer may issue a notice of traffic infraction for a violation of subsection (1) of this section whether or not the infraction was committed in the officer's presence, as long as there is reasonable evidence presented that the operator of the wheeled all-terrain vehicle committed a violation of subsection (1) of this section. At a minimum, the evidence must include information relating to the time and location at which the violation occurred, and the wheeled all-terrain vehicle metal tag number or a description of the vehicle involved in the violation. If, after an investigation of a reported violation of subsection (1) of this section, the law enforcement officer is able to identify the operator and has probable cause to believe a violation of subsection (1) of this section has occurred, the law enforcement officer shall prepare a notice of traffic infraction and have it served upon the operator of the wheeled all- terrain vehicle.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:24 AM   #10
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I predict lots of ATV users not displaying their metal tag for fear of leaf lickers ambushing them if this bill passes
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:20 AM   #11
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I predict lots of ATV users not displaying their metal tag for fear of leaf lickers ambushing them if this bill passes
I have tried to explain that to the people supporting this bill.
Why would some doing something illegal display their plate?
Mud, dust or "it must have fallen off" take care of that problem.

Most of the time, only law abiding people will have their plates displayed.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:27 PM   #12
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Rep Hayes actually emailed me back with questions.

I like it!
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:48 PM   #13
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Wow, none of that from 45th district.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:23 PM   #14
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Rep Hayes actually emailed me back with questions.

I like it!
From what I've seen so far Hayes is one of the good guys.
Every time I've met with him, he takes the time to listen.

He is even the prime sponsor of my HB1755 D-pass bill in the House.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...1755&year=2013
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder View Post
Wow, none of that from 45th district.
Nor the 23rd district.
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