next bike has already been built

[hayduke.klr07]

I know the simplicity of the klr is major pro for me. Or it could be I am really cheap and secretly lust for BMWs triumphs ktm or any other bike designed in this millennium. or maybe one of the many other options that are available on other continents.

[dirtyron]

Originally Posted by Kommando

Modern cars and bikes aren't necessarily harder to work on. You may just need different tools and/or knowledge.

My OBDII car doesn't require hooking up to anything to pull codes. I just jumper a plug and cycle the key, then watch the CEL. It tells you what sensors are getting tripped.

My ABS car stops great on ice, in a straight line or swerving. I changed the brakes on it this past autumn, like I have on any other car I've ever had. Changing the pads and rotors was a hell of a lot easier than changing drums, shoes, cylinders, and hardware.

ECM goes bad? This happened on my MPI Jeep Wrangler. Squirrels also chewed through the wiring to 2 injectors. I soldered in new injector wires in maybe 20 minutes, including the time to set up my soldering iron. Then we swapped in an ECM found on Ebay for $50. It took maybe 10 minutes. I could easily carry a spare. The junkyards/salvagers have used ones, if I don't want to pay for a new one.

this is about bikes, remember? actually you are making a good point. motorcyles are following the complexity of cars

[ph0rk]

Originally Posted by dirtyron

and if you drop it crossing that creek you're not absoloutly f*****d

Different applications, I suppose. For my own riding, if I am crossing a creek without using a bridge I've already screwed up. A FI bike with ABS is really great for a 24/7 commuter who travels on days from 20 degrees on up, rain or shine. My one carbed bike wasn't.

Plenty of people don't enjoy wrenching and would rather spend what free time they have on other pursuits. There are almost certainly more people like that than there are who like to handle repairs themselves in the US, if not among advrider's regular visitors, never mind people that don't even have garage space.

For someone like that, a mechanical failure might as well be a smoked ECU, they're just as stranded.

[eatpasta]

Originally Posted by dirtyron

nothing from the new millenium does it for me. and there getting worse.

Ok then - let's hear it - if you could custom order a bike from any manufacturer, what would it be like?

[dirtyron]

Originally Posted by eatpasta

Ok then - let's hear it - if you could custom order a bike from any manufacturer, what would it be like?

ok i 'll bite. from ducati, lightweight aircooled twin along the lines of a ss or monster.analog gauges. forged wheels. fuel injection would be necessary to pass emmisions. no abs no 10 maps of god dam traction control no red key.under 400 lbs. ducati can build this . check out anything from radical ducati in spain or ncr in italy. don't need the titanium bits to keep the price down. from japan give me a light weight dualsport adv bike that is under 300 lbs. again spare me the electronics as much as possible.please do we really need 37 inch seat heigth and 14 inch ground clearance? i can not imagine taking one of these modern near 600 pound hippoes to mexico. if you can't pick it up and if you can't fix it yourself it ain't no adv bike. ok i'll stop here.

[dirtyron]

a lowered xr650r would be a great starting place for honda

[vivo]

Modern brakes are better than drum brakes, no more difficult to service and are safer. Six speeds are better than four, Six gives overdrive and modern transmissions shift better than old crap. Braided brake lines are better than dry rotting rubber. Modern radial tires are better than rock hard belted crap. Old bikes sometimes are not as plush as new bikes and adjustable suspensions are better than wishing your old bike handled a turn without folding in half. Fiberglass tanks melt with modern fuels and of course that crud gums up you fine carbs. Modern bikes start and idle without tinkering. Do you want to put aluminum foil on those rabbit ears again too? How about replacing vacumn tubes? That was fun stuff! Much better than modern.

Yes, we long for things old and simple. Truth is we have simple modern bikes too. That might not please some... there will always be those who don't trust the electric starter, damm contraption! There will be those who enjoy faulty points and replacing spark plugs...it's a tune up. There will be those who like old rubber that rots instead of modern silicone that does not.

That is ok.... if you like less modern things and they satisfy then that works.

Vivo

[eatpasta]

Originally Posted by dirtyron

a lowered xr650r would be a great starting place for honda

You mean a 650L?

[dirtyron]

Originally Posted by eatpasta

You mean a 650L?

hell no

[Grover6]

Honda would have a winner with a 650l base, add in an R motor with efi good for 60ish hp, and add usd front forks from the crf line, with a rally type front fairing for wind/weather protection, and a strong subframe for the addition of bags (or not, depending on your desire). Keep it between 300 and 350 lbs.Lower it by 3", and I would buy one tomorrow.

[eatpasta]

Originally Posted by dirtyron

hell no

Whats wrong with the L? The R is a straight up race bike. The entire thing is made out of Aluminum. Every single bolt on the bike will need to be helicoiled at some point.
Yes it's fast and hugely because of the power to weight ratio but I wouldn't want an Adv bike to be nearly all aluminum.

Yes the L is heavier and slower but the engine has one moving part and the bike is essentially indestructible. THAT's an Adv bike.

[dirtyron]

Originally Posted by eatpasta

Whats wrong with the L? The R is a straight up race bike. The entire thing is made out of Aluminum. Every single bolt on the bike will need to be helicoiled at some point.
Yes it's fast and hugely because of the power to weight ratio but I wouldn't want an Adv bike to be nearly all aluminum.

Yes the L is heavier and slower but the engine has one moving part and the bike is essentially indestructible. THAT's an Adv bike.

you have some valid points. an aluminum frame is not the best idea on an adv bike.the xr650r motor makes a lot more hp and torque than the 650L. the R motor is really awesome. plus it is very easy to kick over. actually the old xr600L was one of my favorites. lighter lower and faster than the 650L.could be a beast to kick though and not a fan of those dual carbs.if we could only have the best of these three.

[dirtyron]

Originally Posted by eatpasta

Whats wrong with the L? The R is a straight up race bike. The entire thing is made out of Aluminum. Every single bolt on the bike will need to be helicoiled at some point.
Yes it's fast and hugely because of the power to weight ratio but I wouldn't want an Adv bike to be nearly all aluminum.

Yes the L is heavier and slower but the engine has one moving part and the bike is essentially indestructible. THAT's an Adv bike.

one moving part?? a turbine?

[eatpasta]

Originally Posted by dirtyron

you have some valid points. an aluminum frame is not the best idea on an adv bike.the xr650r motor makes a lot more hp and torque than the 650L. the R motor is really awesome. plus it is very easy to kick over. actually the old xr600L was one of my favorites. lighter lower and faster than the 650L.could be a beast to kick though and not a fan of those dual carbs.if we could only have the best of these three.

That wouldnt be a bad idea. 650R motor with a button in a 650L steel frame. Sounds like you have a job now!



I raced one for two years. Phenomenal bike but man.... dont crash it then expect to get it going again while out of breath. It was the last Mans dirtbike....

Nothing could catch that thing in the flats or sandwashes. I would always pass a dozen guys at 94 mph in the sand, then as soon as it got technical they would all blow by

[Wraith Rider]

Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike

Anyone who knows much about cars knows that in the last twenty years they have
become increasingly complex and significantly more difficult ( and expensive ) to
diagnose and repair. I don't know a single engineer who would tell you that any of this
is a good thing. The same thing is beginning to happen to motorcycles.


The people who claim that a preference for slightly older vehicles is a symptom of
old age are making an ad hominem attack rather than using valid reasoning to justify
their position. If this was a debate moderated by educated people their position would
be the losing one. Increased complexity which detracts from reliability and adds to the
expense of operating a vehicle cannot be seen as desirable by a rational observer,
unless that observer is in the business of repairing vehicles and thus stands to gain from
fixing problems vehicle owners cannot possibly fix themselves due to the complexity
of the vehicle systems.


Bikes are nowhere near as bad as cars with respect to complexity and problems, but
they're headed toward the sort of complexity which will require connecting to a computer
to have any hope of determining the source of some problems. It is difficult to imagine
how anyone could find such a machine preferable to a machine which could be diagnosed
and repaired with common tools.

Speaking as a mechanical engineer:
You're completely wrong.

Modern, complex bikes are way more reliable and thus much cheaper to operate. In addition, to diagnose one IF it fails is much easier nowadays because in many cases all you need is a common tool like a computer/pocket computer instead of specialized hardware. Also you often replace assembly groups instead of doing time intense and unsafe makeshift repairs.

For the old guys <-> young guys problem... well... the older ones mostly just can't accept, that to the younger ones computers are much easier to operate than screwdrivers. The olds learned to operate screwdrivers, so they think every problem should have to be a screwdriver problem. The youngs are more like: If it's an electronics problem, it's no problem, if it's a mechanical problem, call a mechanic instead of wasting time.