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Old 02-14-2013, 06:17 AM   #1
Seth S OP
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Garages

Is there a garage thread somewhere? Does this belong in the garage? so many questions. Closing in a house in 2 weeks...hopefully and planning the future garage. This is a serious design but a learning project and a way to learn to use Sketchup more efficiently at the same time. The model evolves easily enough.

Currently drawn as a 24'x36' outside dimension base with 8" wide concrete frost walls and ultimately a 6" slab. First floor is 8' tall but roof is drawn as 12/12 and 2nd floor only runs part of the length of the building...effectively creating a tall ceiling for lift clearance. First floor is framed with 2x6's and the rafter design is still evolving.

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Old 02-14-2013, 07:22 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Seth S View Post
Is there a garage thread somewhere? Does this belong in the garage?
Depends. Are you looking for advice? Tips? Do you just want to show off your design or learn more about Sketchup?
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:38 AM   #3
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Depends. Are you looking for advice? Tips? Do you just want to show off your design or learn more about Sketchup?
any and all of the above. Never built anything structural before but have the benefit of a family with a construction company who help out and provide lots of info.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:45 AM   #4
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I too am contemplating/planning a garage, prolly on the order of 32x40.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:49 AM   #5
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I need to modify the end trusses for the roof and I need to increase the height of the main garage door as it is only 8' tall right now and I'd like it to be 10' or 12'.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:56 AM   #6
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Random observations from bottom to top:

Why 6" slab? Concrete is expensive. A 4' slab w/ 6x6 WWF is generally plenty. Do you need the concrete half wall? or can you begin framing at the slab level ? (much lees $$). If you need the half wall, doing it in 8" CMU should be less $$. If you do the half walls, why not standard length studs from there and gain the extra head room. Why 2x6 walls? If for insulation, there are more cost effective ways. The rafter design you show will require a structural ridge beam (because you collar tie is too high, it has to be in the bottom third to work) and ganged up 2x's structural posts at each end to get that load to the ground - right over your garage door, so it needs a structural header resting on more ganged up 2x's. Your simplest, most cost effective roof system is prefab trusses at 24" OC - look at the "attic storage" type for the area that has storage/loft above and scissor trusses for the part that will be open.

No windows or skylights? These can make the space much more pleasant to be in and you don't always have to have a bunch of lights on. Make your garage door at least 9' wide, 10' might be better.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:11 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by SRG View Post
Random observations from bottom to top:

Why 6" slab? Concrete is expensive. A 4' slab w/ 6x6 WWF is generally plenty.

I wasn't sure if I was going to have heavier equipment stored in there at some point and was thinking of a beefier floor. However a 4" slab with a reinforced area for mounting a vehicle lift would be good too..and as you mentioned cheaper.



Do you need the concrete half wall?

I am not sure...I have to check the zoning and building requirements for the area. I tend to think in overbuild terms when I draw stuff up and then have to go back and downsize

or can you begin framing at the slab level ? (much lees $$). If you need the half wall, doing it in 8" CMU should be less $$.
what does CMU stand for?


If you do the half walls, why not standard length studs from there and gain the extra head room. Why 2x6 walls?

I want the first floor to appear to be 8' tall. with the extra ceiling clearance gained from a tall roof. I am trying to make the building look more like a small barn so that it works with the house and neighborhood a little better. If I built off of the slab I could go to a 8' piece of lumber.


If for insulation, there are more cost effective ways. The rafter design you show will require a structural ridge beam (because you collar tie is too high, it has to be in the bottom third to work) and ganged up 2x's structural posts at each end to get that load to the ground - right over your garage door, so it needs a structural header resting on more ganged up 2x's. Your simplest, most cost effective roof system is prefab trusses at 24" OC - look at the "attic storage" type for the area that has storage/loft above and scissor trusses for the part that will be open.

No windows or skylights? These can make the space much more pleasant to be in and you don't always have to have a bunch of lights on. Make your garage door at least 9' wide, 10' might be better.
windows haven't been drawn in yet. was focusing on the base structure first and then I'll decide on the passive lighting
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:16 AM   #8
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2x6 vs 2x4 I was thinking of strength vs insulation. but maybe 2x6's are cost prohibitive and the increase in strength is unrealistic...unneccesary.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:16 AM   #9
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I helped a friend build a pro-level shop couple of years ago. These are some of the things I remember :

A heating system and proper insulation so it can be used year round.


A ceiling high enough that surface mount lifts for cars can be installed later if desired.

Insulated space for air compressor ( with easy access for draining the air tank of
water collected due to condensation ) so the noise of the compressor is reduced.

Hard lines for air with lots of connection points so flex air lines don't have to be run
across the floor.

Built-in exhaust fan for quick removal of fumes.

Twice the 120V power outlets you think you will need, 220V power so you can run a decent welder.

Some of the newest flourescent lighting meant for shop use ( small diameter high output
bulbs ) is amazingly good and also efficient. Proper lighting is better than having to drag
a drop light around all the time.

A sink and toilet so you don't have to go to the main dwelling for washing up etc.

Drains built into the floor so water used in wet sanding or other tasks can drain out
of the building.

Epoxy painted floor for easy cleanup.

Possibly a "mother-in-law" apartment on a second floor which you can rent to offset the cost of building the garage.

Cat 5 or similar ( internet ) cable run to convenient points along with a wireless router.


Definitely pay a professional architect a reasonable fee to look over your plans and
make suggestions; there is no substitute for the knowledge of a pro architect, and
the easiest way to deal with design mistakes is when the mistakes are still
only on paper or in a CAD file.


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Old 02-14-2013, 08:31 AM   #10
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CMU = concrete masonry unit = concrete block.

No structural need for 2x6 wall in a one story building.

It'sNotTheBike has good suggestions, some of which add considerable $$. His last paragraph is music to my ears.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:41 AM   #11
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Thanks for the suggestions...these are all things that can easily be overlooked or forgotten about until afterward when it is either too late or costly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
I helped a friend build a pro-level shop couple of years ago. These are some of the things I remember :

A heating system and proper insulation so it can be used year round.
My thought is to build the foundation and get the structure up and do the floor later...at which point I would like to go with radiant heat unless this is unwise for a garage.



A ceiling high enough that surface mount lifts for cars can be installed later if desired.

[COLOR="rgb(255, 140, 0)"]Planning on a half second floor...more of a loft that allows for clearance of a car on a lift[/COLOR]



Insulated space for air compressor ( with easy access for draining the air tank of
water collected due to condensation ) so the noise of the compressor is reduced.

Hard lines for air with lots of connection points so flex air lines don't have to be run
across the floor.

Built-in exhaust fan for quick removal of fumes.

Twice the 120V power outlets you think you will need, 220V power so you can run a decent welder.

Some of the newest flourescent lighting meant for shop use ( small diameter high output
bulbs ) is amazingly good and also efficient. Proper lighting is better than having to drag
a drop light around all the time.

A sink and toilet so you don't have to go to the main dwelling for washing up etc.

Drains built into the floor so water used in wet sanding or other tasks can drain out
of the building.



Epoxy painted floor for easy cleanup.

Possibly a "mother-in-law" apartment on a second floor which you can rent to offset the cost of building the garage.

Cat 5 or similar ( internet ) cable run to convenient points along with a wireless router.


Definitely pay a professional architect a reasonable fee to look over your plans and
make suggestions; there is no substitute for the knowledge of a pro architect, and
the easiest way to deal with design mistakes is when the mistakes are still
only on paper or in a CAD file.


.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth S View Post
Thanks for the suggestions...these are all things that can easily be overlooked or forgotten about until afterward when it is either too late or costly.
Radiant heat? Might be really freaking expensive. I use a space heater in my big cinderblock garage instead of heating the whole thing with the gas heaters. An infared ceramic gas heater might be nice and heat quickly, or a big woodstove might work to keep fuel cheap, perhaps both.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:07 AM   #13
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Radiant heat can be done on a budget. You should surf around over at the garage journal.....Ill let you google that.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:07 PM   #14
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a few changes

1. Pulled off the roof for the moment
2. Changed framing to 2x4's 8' tall.
3. Changed to 4" thick slab on top of 4' frost walls...which may have to be taller.. I have a friend that built a similar structure here in Vermont and did an Alaskan slab. Not sure if I want to go that route.


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Old 02-14-2013, 12:24 PM   #15
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Radiant heat works very well in the right application. Where heat is the dominant requirement and the space is conditioned to a certain temperature and remains there throughout the heating season.

I don't know where you are, but in most of the lower 48, heating a garage this way doesn't make sense unless you are living in it. Garages are generally not heated/occupied full time or set to some low minimum temp. and then when occupied need to be able to quickly warm up to a comfortable temp.

One of the better solutions for a garage is to use a through wall heat pump similar to what you might see in a motel room. The unit can be turn off when the garage is unoccupied, you can leave it set to maintain a desired minimum temp and when you want a comfortable temp. to work in they can warm up the space quickly. You also get A/C out of the deal and they are reasonably efficient. Running a heated slab full time is not, nor will you be able to alter the temp. quickly and there's no A/C. Through wall units need only one dedicated 110v circuit and a hole in the framing to mount it.
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