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Old 04-11-2013, 02:18 PM   #16
Badjuju
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109 View Post
I would beg to differ on this point. Clutchless upshifting is not a track-only skill. I use it daily and it makes for MUCH smoother upshifts. I didn't realize this was taught at L2 and I'm impressed they do. It is a good skill to have in the toolbox.
Cliffy: You may certainly offer your opinion in spite of it differing from mine. In fact, you don't even have to beg...

I didn't say it wasn't a valuable skill, merely that--IMHO (you missed that part)--it isn't a skill I use on the street on a regular basis. While many things have trickled down from the race environment to the street--i.e., Quickshifters--I don't believe that is necessarily a good thing. You gotta remember that the Quickshift came to us from the track. Track bikes aren't expected to go 40-50,000 miles between tranny rebuilds. No matter whether you execute the shift perfectly with or without the Quickshifter, banging the gears together without removing some of the shock load on the driveline is gonna put more wear on the dogs, and probably done without consummate skill/finesse, you may eventually bend the shifter pawl.

When you shift with the clutch disengaged, the only rotating weight that is putting stress on the gear dogs is the mass of the selected gear, gear shaft and clutch basket. When you don't use the clutch, you are shifting against the entire mass of the drivetrain, including chain, sprockets, rear wheel and tire. If you don't get it exactly right EVERY time, you're putting lots more stress on the gear dogs and they will eventually round off.

I understand the need (desire?) to use clutchless upshifts for the dragstrip or track, but why for the street? I suppose it does put a slight amount of wear on the clutch, depending on how hard you bang your shifts, but it's WAY cheaper to replace the clutch plates than split your engine cases and replace bent shift forks and worn gear dogs. IMHO
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Badjuju screwed with this post 04-12-2013 at 09:24 AM
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:13 PM   #17
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Really wish I could do this soon.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badjuju View Post
No matter whether you execute the shift perfectly with or without the Quickshifter, banging the gears together without removing some of the shock load on the driveline is gonna put more wear on the dogs, and probably done without consummate skill/finesse, you will eventually bend the shifter pawl.
Agreed however, it really takes VERY little skill to figure out how to remove the shock load on the driveline. A quick flick of the wrist is all that is needed while your toe presses up to make this a lot smoother than a shift with the clutch. At least that has been my experience on every BMW boxer engine I've ridden and it doesn't work so well from first to second. Every gear after that and it is clearly less harsh on everything (your pillion included if you have one).

I know there are varying opinions on this matter and I didn't mean to get this discussion sidetracked. I'm just impressed that Lee Parks is teaching this method as I find it very useful for smoother street riding.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:14 AM   #19
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The lexington Classes went well and the weather did not cooperate either! On the first day we delt with snow all day and on the second and second day we delt with cold temperatures!

Classes will be back in the Lexington Area this summer and beyond!
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:10 AM   #20
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David: In case I haven't already thanked you on LR forum, I had a blast at the class. For others thinking of taking the course, it's well worth the investment even if--or maybe especially if--you've been riding for years. Lots of bad habits 'learned' from riding the street and being lazy need to be unlearned.

For those with an ego problem, it's a humbling experience to watch David (Outlaw Justice) grind a knee puck at 20 MPH on a vintage VMax with a trailer hitch attached. I was lucky enough to attend a class being taught not only by David, but by Lee himself. Lots of work and lots of fun!
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:53 AM   #21
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Well I'm glad this thread is getting some attention, should be a good bit of promotion for the general "Total Control" clinic.

I did get the two days in a row, already paid for, so just have to not trash my bike in the meantime.

I'm really excited, as I wanted to take this course for a few years now.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:50 AM   #22
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Thought about taking it, but....

To take the course in New York, it's about 2000 km round trip ride. If I stay in Canada and go to Mississauga, it's about 3000 km round trip. The local Safety Council only offered one ERC (Experienced Rider Course, fwiw) last year, and so far this year won't even respond to my queries about when/where they plan to hold one.

Is this course worth it is the real question?
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:22 AM   #23
outlaws justice
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Originally Posted by More_Miles View Post
To take the course in New York, it's about 2000 km round trip ride. If I stay in Canada and go to Mississauga, it's about 3000 km round trip. The local Safety Council only offered one ERC (Experienced Rider Course, fwiw) last year, and so far this year won't even respond to my queries about when/where they plan to hold one.

Is this course worth it is the real question?
Depends on YOU, but for me that is easy. YES. I only had to travel 300 miles to take mine and do not regret it one bit. If you talk to those who have taken the class I think you will get the same answer. I will be at the classes in Mississauga again this year.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:59 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by outlaws justice View Post
Depends on YOU, but for me that is easy. YES. I only had to travel 300 miles to take mine and do not regret it one bit. If you talk to those who have taken the class I think you will get the same answer. I will be at the classes in Mississauga again this year.
I'll have to backup outlaws here. It is worth it. I took the Level 1 last year in Mississauga. Cost of the course + 2 night hotel stay it starts getting spendy. That being said I'm enrolled for Level 2 this June. Mind you, I'm only 350km away.

Is it worth 2000km+? That's a question only you can answer. The course very much is worth the money and I'm not exactly a n00b when it comes to riding. Bad habits develop over time, you will find them when you take this course, but more importantly, you can correct them.

See ya in June Outlaws!
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