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Old 02-20-2013, 01:55 PM   #46
Phipsd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I am here because I own 3 scooters, and have owned 3 others, and plan on owning more. Just because you have had a positive experience with your SYM doesn't mean everyone else has. What about the OP of this thread? He has apparently not had a positive experience. Many people on the SYM forum have not had positive experiences. Most of the negative experiences seem to be form a lack of support from the importer rather than the quality of the scooters themselves.
I have done a lot of research recently on SYM scooters, and this review of the HD200 seems typical

"On a recent trip to New York City from Washington D.C., the bike turned 10,000 miles. On the 615-mile trip it averaged 75 mpg. The top speed ranged from 66-72 miles/hour. I went straight up I-95 on the way up. I stayed to the right but did my fair share of passing. On the way back I came thought PA I-78 and US-30. It was more scenic and just one 75-cent toll. Hopefully the folks at SYM will get the distribution thing for the entire United States straighten out. They have good products but haven't marketed them well at all"

People have had all kinds of experiences with SYM scooters, but a great deal of them have had bad experiences trying to buy them, and with support after the sale. This is far from a one sided story.

As for the Motus thread, I have no idea why on earth that was brought up in the scooter forum. That thread is nothing but one long argument from beginning to end. And all over a bike that does not even exist. Nothing on that thread can be taken seriously.
Jerry: Your posts to the new rider were some of the best and most insightful I have ever seen on this forum. Hopefully Rick G was just having a bad day.

What would be the fun of it if we always agreed on everything?
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:37 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I am here because I own 3 scooters, and have owned 3 others, and plan on owning more. Just because you have had a positive experience with your SYM doesn't mean everyone else has. What about the OP of this thread? He has apparently not had a positive experience. Many people on the SYM forum have not had positive experiences. Most of the negative experiences seem to be form a lack of support from the importer rather than the quality of the scooters themselves.
I have done a lot of research recently on SYM scooters, and this review of the HD200 seems typical

"On a recent trip to New York City from Washington D.C., the bike turned 10,000 miles. On the 615-mile trip it averaged 75 mpg. The top speed ranged from 66-72 miles/hour. I went straight up I-95 on the way up. I stayed to the right but did my fair share of passing. On the way back I came thought PA I-78 and US-30. It was more scenic and just one 75-cent toll. Hopefully the folks at SYM will get the distribution thing for the entire United States straighten out. They have good products but haven't marketed them well at all"

People have had all kinds of experiences with SYM scooters, but a great deal of them have had bad experiences trying to buy them, and with support after the sale. This is far from a one sided story.
I am curious, when was this originally posted?

It sounds like other posts that were being made before Alliance was officially the distributor for the US. There were rumors about the US being split between two distributors. Peirspeed for the east and Lance for the west. In the end Alliance (Lance) was picked as a single distributor for the whole US. But all that is old news, I would pay more attention to posts from late 2012 to current IMHO.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:20 PM   #48
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Most problems seem to be at the distributor level. Everything I have found points to SYM as being a very high quality product. But support, parts, and even bike availability still seems to be spotty at best. Dealers come and go. I have a local multibrand dealer who was a SYM dealer a few months ago, with bikes on the floor, still has the SYM name on their site, but no longer have any SYM bikes in stock. Peirspeed is also the distributer for the Sachs MadAss, before that it was Tomberlin. Both have had issues. I'm not sure why SYM needs a separate distributor. Kymco is their own distributor, and has control over everything and is doing very well. Genuine is an oddball. They seem to get bikes from 2-3 different manufacturers, but they all have the Genuine name on them.

This is JUST MY OPINION, but I think if SYM had a rock solid distributor, they would do very well. Right now I do not know of a local place where I could buy a SYM. Aprilia seems to have an issue as well. A couple of dealers have a few dusty scratched up 4-5 year old scooters sitting on their showroom floor, at full MSRP, but nothing new. A local Kymco dealer on the other hand has a large number of brand new clean and shiny scooters on their floor. And they sell them at under MSRP.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:42 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I am here because I own 3 scooters, and have owned 3 others, and plan on owning more. Just because you have had a positive experience with your SYM doesn't mean everyone else has. What about the OP of this thread? He has apparently not had a positive experience. Many people on the SYM forum have not had positive experiences. Most of the negative experiences seem to be form a lack of support from the importer rather than the quality of the scooters themselves.
I have done a lot of research recently on SYM scooters, and this review of the HD200 seems typical

"On a recent trip to New York City from Washington D.C., the bike turned 10,000 miles. On the 615-mile trip it averaged 75 mpg. The top speed ranged from 66-72 miles/hour. I went straight up I-95 on the way up. I stayed to the right but did my fair share of passing. On the way back I came thought PA I-78 and US-30. It was more scenic and just one 75-cent toll. Hopefully the folks at SYM will get the distribution thing for the entire United States straighten out. They have good products but haven't marketed them well at all"

People have had all kinds of experiences with SYM scooters, but a great deal of them have had bad experiences trying to buy them, and with support after the sale. This is far from a one sided story.

As for the Motus thread, I have no idea why on earth that was brought up in the scooter forum. That thread is nothing but one long argument from beginning to end. And all over a bike that does not even exist. Nothing on that thread can be taken seriously.
However you have no experience owning or servicing a Sym yet feel that you are and expert in all things Sym.

As for Motus, you tried to tell everyone who would listen that a Vulcan 750 was a better motorcycle both in concept and execution totally derailling a thread about a new American Manufacturer.

So what I am trying to politey tell you is that you should speak on those issues that you have actual on hands or first knowledge experience with because everything else is just hearsay.

Don't make me call Dakez or Bueller to this thread.

Rick G
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:21 PM   #50
JerryH
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I do have first hand experience with SYM, even though I have never owned one. There are currently 2 SYM dealers in my area (or maybe they are former dealers who have simply not taken the signs down yet) that no longer have any SYM scooters or parts in stock. One DOES have a Cali Classic in stock that they have had over 6 months. It says both Lance and SYM on it, so I don't know what it is. AND, other locations may very well have a completely different situation. OP was talking about Canada.

I never compared the Vulcan 750 to a Motus. I have 160,000 miles on Vulcan 750s and love them. They are a perfect long distance solo touring bike for me. But they are a cruiser, the Motus concept is not. Totally different. But I did compare it to the ST1300, FJR1300, and Concours 1400, which are all sport tourers, which is what the Motus claims to be, and what it would have to compete against. I have left the Motus thread, and intend to just "wait and see". I was never interested in the Motus as a potential customer, it is way out of my price range.
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I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:45 AM   #51
Midnullarbor
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.
One small point :

The Kymco People GT200i is significantly different from the Sym HD200[Evo].

Both are good scoots, I gather, but the Sym has a smaller engine [171cc versus 205cc] and is much lighter (by about 30 Kg).

The Sym is definitely a good little 'un, and arguably the pick of the Sym range.
Here's hoping Canadians will get a chance to buy it.

Where do you draw the line between large and small?
(Personally, if I were putting my money down on the Kymco 200, I'd be very tempted to pay a bit more and get the 300, which has real highway cruising ability.)

One excellent point to the Sym's advantage, is the radiator being mounted up very high, unlike the Kymco's low mount just behind the front wheel where mud and crud get flung up.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:51 AM   #52
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The Kymco GT200 is 205cc, but it is also $4899. But the Blur is 220cc and $3999. Quite a difference. The Kymco Like 200 is 170cc, and $2799. The GT200 is out of my price range, I doubt I will be able to find a Blur, and I like the Buddy 170 enough to pay $500 more for it than the 170cc Kymco Like 200. No SYMs are currently for sale around here new, and I wouldn't risk buying one until they have had several good years without problems, like Genuine and Kymco have. A motor vehicle is only as good as it's importer when you need support.
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I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:21 PM   #53
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Now there is something new out. I just found this ad on Craigslist.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/mcd/3580131994.html

Something called an RV200, and supposedly a 2013 model. This ad won't likely be up long before it gets flagged. This is a dealer with an extremely bad reputation, they have operated under several different names, but they started out as "az discount atv" and there have been a lot of warnings about them posted on Craigslist. They started out selling bottom of the line Chinese junk. I find it odd they are now selling SYM, when two reputable SYM dealers, or former SYM dealers don't have anything.

But the dealer is not really what concerns me, I'm more interested in the scooter. Is this something new, or just a renamed HD200? If it is new, what is the difference?
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I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
1980 Puch moped
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:45 PM   #54
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It's a new model. The CityCom is also back.

You may want to check out the Alliance Powersports website.

http://alliancepowersports.com/
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:38 PM   #55
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Now I see the difference. I like the RV200, with it's smaller wheels, and stepped seat for lower back support. But with it being a new model, there will not likely be any deals available on it, and it is on the expensive side even before all the fees. I won't deal with that place, but I'll see if I can find it somewhere else.
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I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
1980 Puch moped
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:11 PM   #56
JerryH
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[QUOTE=Billigan;20803894]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I do have first hand experience with SYM, even though I have never owned one.

A guy that NEVER owned a SYM product but has the most complains?

I bought my 1st. scooter a 2009 HD200 new in Toronto and now has 28000km on the clock. I never had a problem with it. Got all of my perishable parts (tires, belt, rollers and air filter) from my dealer but also available EBay. Did all the maintanence myself by learning on Youtube and the SYM owners forum. I do have one complaint throgh, they? never wiped my A$$, lol
I see your new, so I'll overlook this rubbish. Just because I HAVE NEVER OWNED A SYM doesn't mean I am not very familiar with their local supply and support problems. I frequent a couple of local scooter dealers, and they have told me about the problems they have with SYM. Again, quality was not the issue. Problems with the importer were. Lack of scooters, lack of parts, manufacturer not honoring warranties, problems with legal paperwork, breach of contract by the importer, problems with customers, etc. I do not know which importer they were talking about, only that they felt SYM was not worth the hassles of trying to deal with, when they had brands like Genuine and Kymco that were also high quality, sold well, and didn't have any supplier issues.

A dealer has to deal with their customers and make them happy to stay in business. If they sell a product to a customer, and that customer has problems, or just needs parts and supplies for what they bought, and the dealer cannot help them, they are in trouble.

NSR, but 25 years ago, a well known car dealer made a huge mistake, and decided to become a Yugo dealer. They spent a bunch of money putting up signs, allocating extra showroom space, advertising, buying brand specific tools and stocking parts, plus buying a large number of cars. At first things worked great, they sold like crazy for $3999, and the dealer was raking in profits. Then Yugo went out of business, and so did the availability of service and repair parts. The warranty became worthless. Lawsuits started piling up against the dealer for not meeting their obligations to customers. They couldn't even service a Yugo anymore. That went on for years, and the dealer nearly went bankrupt. They made it, only to be shut down by the auto manufacturers back in '08.

A local motorcycle dealer ran into the same problem with Excelsior Henderson, and it cost them plenty. But they survived, because they had not sold that many bikes. Most of their losses were incurred due to making the necessary investments to become a dealer.

SYM is a well known company that builds quality stuff. It is unfortunate they are having to go through a third party importer, as that seems to be where things are going wrong.

In case you did not read the above couple of posts, they have a new model that I am actually interested in. But I can't buy it, or even check it out, if I cannot find a dealer.

I just found this post on another forum. This is a Tucson dealer, about 120 miles away. But they carry SYM, as of now. But here is part of what the post said:


"I was in Tucson today and stopped in at Scoot Over. The owner told me the were selling SYM scooters on a "probationary" period due to the fact they've had problems with SYM in the past. I'm not sure what that means and I didn't ask"

This is the same basic thing I've heard from local dealers. Apparently SYM still does not have their act completely straightened out. That would still not stop me from buying one, if I liked it, and if I could get a decent deal. That does NOT mean $5000 for a $3500 scooter. I already know I can get a Kymco or Genuine for under MSRP OTD.
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I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
1980 Puch moped

JerryH screwed with this post 02-25-2013 at 12:15 AM
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:53 AM   #57
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.....I do not know which importer they were talking about,...
And there you have it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:35 PM   #58
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Talked to the Tucson dealer Saturday. It seems they are in fact enthusiastic about SYM and offered to service my HD200, which I bought from a private party recently.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:25 PM   #59
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Talked to the Tucson dealer Saturday. It seems they are in fact enthusiastic about SYM and offered to service my HD200, which I bought from a private party recently.
If you look at the front page of the site for Scoot Over, the dealer in Tucson, it gives a list of brands that they carry, and at the end, it says "and now SYM" This dealer used to carry SYM scooters some time back, but quit when the distributor messed up big. They were unable to get many parts. A dealer in Tempe, called Scooter Invasion, had the exact same thing happen. They left the SYM name on their site and on their window, but they did not sell SYM scooters for a long time because there weren't any. They also could not get a lot of parts for scooters they had already sold, and were concerned about their reputation.

I have talked to both dealers in person, and while they are happy about carrying SYM scooters again, they have not forgotten what happened last time, when the distributor left them high and dry. They are very much afraid it will happen again, but hopeful it won't. But if you express an interest in buying a SYM scooter fro them, they will tell you the history of the brand. They do not want to be blamed if the importer goes belly up. It is beyond their control, but it could result in some very unhappy customers.


The quality of SYM scooters has never been an issue. Nobody has ever said they were not high quality. With one exception. The Wolf 150. It seems to be of much lower quality than the scooters in both materials and workmanship. If you look at it up close, that is easy to see. I suspect SYM did not build it, there is too much difference between it and their other models. The Symba was announced long before it was available, the Wolf just showed up.


The other complaint I hear about SYM is that owners are having issues getting common parts from their dealer. It seems the parts are available, but the SYM distributor does not want people working on their own bikes, so they make the parts hard to get.

Aside from a close up inspection of the Wolf 150, which I was not satisfied with, my information about the Wolf, and about the parts problem came directly from symforum.com, where I am a member, and had the chance to ask a lot of questions and get answers from real owners, many of whom had had their bikes for some time. If you want good information on SYM products, I definitely recommend joining the forum. Nothing like information direct from the horse's mouth.

I like SYM scooters, enough to buy one. But I have to accept the fact that as of now, they do not have the pretty much guaranteed support of brands like Genuine, Kymco, Piaggio, etc. Hopefully that will happen. It would be nice if SYM were their own importer/distributor, rather than having to rely on someone else.
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I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
1980 Puch moped
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:57 AM   #60
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Jerry,

Thank you for your informative post. I learned much and I joined the owners forum a couple of days after purchasing my scooter. Of course Scoot Over was enthusiastic about servicing my HD200 I now realize. I am not familiar with vehicle dealership profit analysis, but I suspect the service part of the business accounts for a substantial portion.

What I did not ask, and will do so next time I'm in Tucson, is whether they will sell me parts when I need them.

I have no idea what percentage of SYM's sales are to the US. It would be nice to know. And your suggestion that it should become its own importer/distributor has merit. Would probably dramatically improve sales and reputation.
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