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Old 02-22-2013, 08:21 PM   #46
JerryH
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Location: Chandler, AZ
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I do have first hand experience with SYM, even though I have never owned one. There are currently 2 SYM dealers in my area (or maybe they are former dealers who have simply not taken the signs down yet) that no longer have any SYM scooters or parts in stock. One DOES have a Cali Classic in stock that they have had over 6 months. It says both Lance and SYM on it, so I don't know what it is. AND, other locations may very well have a completely different situation. OP was talking about Canada.

I never compared the Vulcan 750 to a Motus. I have 160,000 miles on Vulcan 750s and love them. They are a perfect long distance solo touring bike for me. But they are a cruiser, the Motus concept is not. Totally different. But I did compare it to the ST1300, FJR1300, and Concours 1400, which are all sport tourers, which is what the Motus claims to be, and what it would have to compete against. I have left the Motus thread, and intend to just "wait and see". I was never interested in the Motus as a potential customer, it is way out of my price range.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:45 AM   #47
Midnullarbor
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.
One small point :

The Kymco People GT200i is significantly different from the Sym HD200[Evo].

Both are good scoots, I gather, but the Sym has a smaller engine [171cc versus 205cc] and is much lighter (by about 30 Kg).

The Sym is definitely a good little 'un, and arguably the pick of the Sym range.
Here's hoping Canadians will get a chance to buy it.

Where do you draw the line between large and small?
(Personally, if I were putting my money down on the Kymco 200, I'd be very tempted to pay a bit more and get the 300, which has real highway cruising ability.)

One excellent point to the Sym's advantage, is the radiator being mounted up very high, unlike the Kymco's low mount just behind the front wheel where mud and crud get flung up.
.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:51 AM   #48
JerryH
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The Kymco GT200 is 205cc, but it is also $4899. But the Blur is 220cc and $3999. Quite a difference. The Kymco Like 200 is 170cc, and $2799. The GT200 is out of my price range, I doubt I will be able to find a Blur, and I like the Buddy 170 enough to pay $500 more for it than the 170cc Kymco Like 200. No SYMs are currently for sale around here new, and I wouldn't risk buying one until they have had several good years without problems, like Genuine and Kymco have. A motor vehicle is only as good as it's importer when you need support.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:21 PM   #49
JerryH
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Now there is something new out. I just found this ad on Craigslist.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/mcd/3580131994.html

Something called an RV200, and supposedly a 2013 model. This ad won't likely be up long before it gets flagged. This is a dealer with an extremely bad reputation, they have operated under several different names, but they started out as "az discount atv" and there have been a lot of warnings about them posted on Craigslist. They started out selling bottom of the line Chinese junk. I find it odd they are now selling SYM, when two reputable SYM dealers, or former SYM dealers don't have anything.

But the dealer is not really what concerns me, I'm more interested in the scooter. Is this something new, or just a renamed HD200? If it is new, what is the difference?
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:45 PM   #50
HBrew
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It's a new model. The CityCom is also back.

You may want to check out the Alliance Powersports website.

http://alliancepowersports.com/
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:38 PM   #51
JerryH
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Now I see the difference. I like the RV200, with it's smaller wheels, and stepped seat for lower back support. But with it being a new model, there will not likely be any deals available on it, and it is on the expensive side even before all the fees. I won't deal with that place, but I'll see if I can find it somewhere else.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:11 PM   #52
JerryH
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[QUOTE=Billigan;20803894]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I do have first hand experience with SYM, even though I have never owned one.

A guy that NEVER owned a SYM product but has the most complains?

I bought my 1st. scooter a 2009 HD200 new in Toronto and now has 28000km on the clock. I never had a problem with it. Got all of my perishable parts (tires, belt, rollers and air filter) from my dealer but also available EBay. Did all the maintanence myself by learning on Youtube and the SYM owners forum. I do have one complaint throgh, they? never wiped my A$$, lol
I see your new, so I'll overlook this rubbish. Just because I HAVE NEVER OWNED A SYM doesn't mean I am not very familiar with their local supply and support problems. I frequent a couple of local scooter dealers, and they have told me about the problems they have with SYM. Again, quality was not the issue. Problems with the importer were. Lack of scooters, lack of parts, manufacturer not honoring warranties, problems with legal paperwork, breach of contract by the importer, problems with customers, etc. I do not know which importer they were talking about, only that they felt SYM was not worth the hassles of trying to deal with, when they had brands like Genuine and Kymco that were also high quality, sold well, and didn't have any supplier issues.

A dealer has to deal with their customers and make them happy to stay in business. If they sell a product to a customer, and that customer has problems, or just needs parts and supplies for what they bought, and the dealer cannot help them, they are in trouble.

NSR, but 25 years ago, a well known car dealer made a huge mistake, and decided to become a Yugo dealer. They spent a bunch of money putting up signs, allocating extra showroom space, advertising, buying brand specific tools and stocking parts, plus buying a large number of cars. At first things worked great, they sold like crazy for $3999, and the dealer was raking in profits. Then Yugo went out of business, and so did the availability of service and repair parts. The warranty became worthless. Lawsuits started piling up against the dealer for not meeting their obligations to customers. They couldn't even service a Yugo anymore. That went on for years, and the dealer nearly went bankrupt. They made it, only to be shut down by the auto manufacturers back in '08.

A local motorcycle dealer ran into the same problem with Excelsior Henderson, and it cost them plenty. But they survived, because they had not sold that many bikes. Most of their losses were incurred due to making the necessary investments to become a dealer.

SYM is a well known company that builds quality stuff. It is unfortunate they are having to go through a third party importer, as that seems to be where things are going wrong.

In case you did not read the above couple of posts, they have a new model that I am actually interested in. But I can't buy it, or even check it out, if I cannot find a dealer.

I just found this post on another forum. This is a Tucson dealer, about 120 miles away. But they carry SYM, as of now. But here is part of what the post said:


"I was in Tucson today and stopped in at Scoot Over. The owner told me the were selling SYM scooters on a "probationary" period due to the fact they've had problems with SYM in the past. I'm not sure what that means and I didn't ask"

This is the same basic thing I've heard from local dealers. Apparently SYM still does not have their act completely straightened out. That would still not stop me from buying one, if I liked it, and if I could get a decent deal. That does NOT mean $5000 for a $3500 scooter. I already know I can get a Kymco or Genuine for under MSRP OTD.

JerryH screwed with this post 02-25-2013 at 12:15 AM
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:53 AM   #53
MaineScoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post

.....I do not know which importer they were talking about,...
And there you have it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:35 PM   #54
blugg1
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Talked to the Tucson dealer Saturday. It seems they are in fact enthusiastic about SYM and offered to service my HD200, which I bought from a private party recently.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:25 PM   #55
JerryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blugg1 View Post
Talked to the Tucson dealer Saturday. It seems they are in fact enthusiastic about SYM and offered to service my HD200, which I bought from a private party recently.
If you look at the front page of the site for Scoot Over, the dealer in Tucson, it gives a list of brands that they carry, and at the end, it says "and now SYM" This dealer used to carry SYM scooters some time back, but quit when the distributor messed up big. They were unable to get many parts. A dealer in Tempe, called Scooter Invasion, had the exact same thing happen. They left the SYM name on their site and on their window, but they did not sell SYM scooters for a long time because there weren't any. They also could not get a lot of parts for scooters they had already sold, and were concerned about their reputation.

I have talked to both dealers in person, and while they are happy about carrying SYM scooters again, they have not forgotten what happened last time, when the distributor left them high and dry. They are very much afraid it will happen again, but hopeful it won't. But if you express an interest in buying a SYM scooter fro them, they will tell you the history of the brand. They do not want to be blamed if the importer goes belly up. It is beyond their control, but it could result in some very unhappy customers.


The quality of SYM scooters has never been an issue. Nobody has ever said they were not high quality. With one exception. The Wolf 150. It seems to be of much lower quality than the scooters in both materials and workmanship. If you look at it up close, that is easy to see. I suspect SYM did not build it, there is too much difference between it and their other models. The Symba was announced long before it was available, the Wolf just showed up.


The other complaint I hear about SYM is that owners are having issues getting common parts from their dealer. It seems the parts are available, but the SYM distributor does not want people working on their own bikes, so they make the parts hard to get.

Aside from a close up inspection of the Wolf 150, which I was not satisfied with, my information about the Wolf, and about the parts problem came directly from symforum.com, where I am a member, and had the chance to ask a lot of questions and get answers from real owners, many of whom had had their bikes for some time. If you want good information on SYM products, I definitely recommend joining the forum. Nothing like information direct from the horse's mouth.

I like SYM scooters, enough to buy one. But I have to accept the fact that as of now, they do not have the pretty much guaranteed support of brands like Genuine, Kymco, Piaggio, etc. Hopefully that will happen. It would be nice if SYM were their own importer/distributor, rather than having to rely on someone else.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:57 AM   #56
blugg1
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Jerry,

Thank you for your informative post. I learned much and I joined the owners forum a couple of days after purchasing my scooter. Of course Scoot Over was enthusiastic about servicing my HD200 I now realize. I am not familiar with vehicle dealership profit analysis, but I suspect the service part of the business accounts for a substantial portion.

What I did not ask, and will do so next time I'm in Tucson, is whether they will sell me parts when I need them.

I have no idea what percentage of SYM's sales are to the US. It would be nice to know. And your suggestion that it should become its own importer/distributor has merit. Would probably dramatically improve sales and reputation.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:53 PM   #57
HBrew
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Parts are available for SYM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The other complaint I hear about SYM is that owners are having issues getting common parts from their dealer. It seems the parts are available, but the SYM distributor does not want people working on their own bikes, so they make the parts hard to get.
The complaint was that Alliance Powersports will not sell parts directly to the public. The parts are available through the dealer network.

I posted the following on page 3 of this thread, you can read the complaint for yourself and decide what it was all about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBrew View Post
I have also read the SYM Owners Forum, and come away with a very different picture than JerryH. Here is a sample:


"MMSD
Newbie

Posts: 22


Re: Lance Needs to be the only USA Distributor
Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 02:44:02 PM
Nope...not buying it!!!

It's in April and Lance is obviously Face-booking, Wiki-ing and all that Bullshit adding Sym to their cache of sales items. But where are the (screaming at the TOP of my lungs!!!) God Damn Parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

I recommend everyone contribute to an on-line HATE campaign against them if there are not on-line purchasable parts to the general public at the Carter Bros pricing immediately. Start by crapping all over their facebook page until they cry.


DO NOT BUY SYM, Lance or Alliance until then. Trash Lance in every way until they come through!!!!! PASS IT ON............"


If you want wade through very old news you can read it for yourself at: http://symforum.com/index.php?topic=911.15




The beef has been about Alliance not providing discount parts directly to consumers, not that the parts are not available. Seriously the person wanted to start a hate campaign until Alliance sold cheap parts directly. Remember this was all happening as Alliance was trying to startup, they have been progressively improving, as promised.

I can say that I do have first hand experience with Alliance and my experience has been very good. From everything that I have experienced, and have read online Alliance has been helpful to SYM owners. They have been following through with the plan they laid out. I am sure Klxmack will do the same given a fair chance.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:04 PM   #58
JerryH
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I don't get it. No manufacturer or importer sells parts direct as far as I know of, they are all sold through dealers. You cannot order a Honda part directly from Honda, you have to get it through a dealer, or an online parts place, which is still basically a dealer for Honda parts. They sell retail, they buy from Honda, mark up the price to retail, and sell it to the customer. I would never expect a company to sell me cheap parts direct, and have never bought parts that way.

The complaint I kept hearing on symforum.com was that owners were having problems getting parts from dealers. I'll go back and check again. I remember there was a dealer called Ootscoot that would sell parts, but that was not the case for most other dealers. They could get the parts for themselves to work on the bikes, but the distributor did not want parts sold directly to customers (by the dealers) It's possible this was during the Carter Bros disaster, But I'm pretty sure it was long after that that I was asking about it, when I was considering a Wolf 150. I do all my own work, including service, so being able to get parts from the dealer would be critical.

JerryH screwed with this post 03-26-2013 at 06:23 PM
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:03 PM   #59
HBrew
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It may have been after the Carter fire, and before Alliance started as a new distributer. My dealer was set up to order parts, short term in the time between distributers, from the distributer in Canada.
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