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Old 02-19-2013, 05:47 PM   #1
O'Hooligan OP
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Possible Dual Sport Scooter?

I would love to see this sold in the states!

http://www.gizmag.com/yamaha-off-roa...or-show/21978/
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:50 PM   #2
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looks very interesting...
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:10 PM   #3
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yep nice 115cc scooter and again we never see it unless the moon turns to cheese. Then again with what the ship we are doing to the world that to could happen
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:38 PM   #4
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Looks like a Ruckus on Roids!

Cheers
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:57 PM   #5
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Looks like a Ruckus on Roids!

Cheers
Zuma not Ruckus on roids.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:57 PM   #6
JerryH
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I love the concept, but the engine is too small, especially coupled to a CVT. I have two 125cc scooters, both Yamahas, and neither one has enough power for off road use. Now if they used a 6 speed manual transmission, it just might work. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, I'm comparing it to a 125cc dual sport motorcycle, which has enough power and gearing to take you pretty much anywhere. My 125cc scooters suffer big time on even moderate grades, and will not climb a steep grade at all. I would like to see someone climb Pikes Peak on a stock 125cc scooter. I'd buy that scooter. I know it can be done on a 125cc motorcycle, and has been many times.

I was going to comment on using a scooter frame off road, but I see they have a bolt on brace. I wonder what the ground clearance is? And I wonder how those small wheels would handle off road use.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:29 PM   #7
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Seems pointless to me. Dirt bikes are often ridden standing up, but standing up on a scooter is much less comfortable since there's no gas tank to brace your knees against. And scooters are largely for urban commuting and/or weather protection, which is all irrelevant for dirt riding.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:35 PM   #8
John Fabian
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There is no reason a CVT transmission can not be adapted to an off-road frame. There is nothing magical about a manual clutch and gears.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer View Post
Seems pointless to me. Dirt bikes are often ridden standing up, but standing up on a scooter is much less comfortable since there's no gas tank to brace your knees against. And scooters are largely for urban commuting and/or weather protection, which is all irrelevant for dirt riding.
I agree the scooter step-through design is not the best for difficult terrain.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #10
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I have a sneaking suspicion this bike might be aimed at the 100 000 possible sales to people who ride n slippery clay/mud in Thailand/Burma/Cambodia/Laos/etc. That is, the 100 000 they will sell in the next quarter...........

I'm not sure the designers would have thought about the Western market, other than to put it on display as a design exercise.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by John Fabian View Post
There is no reason a CVT transmission can not be adapted to an off-road frame. There is nothing magical about a manual clutch and gears.
Quite - or even Battery-Electric power.



Did someone mention standing on the pegs?




Full story at-
Gas Gas TXT eTrail Pro Electric Trials Motorcycle



Quote:
A quiet, cool running electric drive trials bike could join pitbikes in making the backyard the next frontier for motorcycling. The low energy density and reletively short range would not be a problem for low speed riding close to the truck or garage. OSET saw this potential and has been selling electric trials bikes since 2006, but for kids. However, no electric motorcycle companies are selling a full sized electric bike for the sport.

Trials riding is not as popular in the United States as it is in other countries but this may be a good place for some existing manufacturers to make their inevitable entry into the electric drive.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:19 PM   #12
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I'm waiting for the new C650GS Adventure
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:21 PM   #13
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Cushman Auto Glide (American forces)





Excelsior Welbike Para scooter (British forces)



Welbike packed into parachuted tubular container.


Very basic Off-road (and on road) air-dropped scooters from WWII.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Rugby4life View Post
I'm waiting for the new C650GS Adventure


Here's a CVT-tranny dual-sport that already exists:

Track T800-CDi review

Andrew English rides a diesel-powered motorcycle, the Track T800-CDi.


Track T800 Diesel goes on sale in the UK



Quote:
80mpg (and) more torque than a 1200GS!

It's a shaft-drive but doesn't feature convential gears, instead it used continuous variable transmission, much like a twist-and-go maxi-scooter. It'll top out at 100mph and its 19-litre tank gives the T800 a claimed 330-mile range. Its dry weight is 215kg - on par with the competition.
The price? 15,995. That's a lot, but what price exclusivity?
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vortexau screwed with this post 02-21-2013 at 12:33 AM
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:59 PM   #15
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The big difference between a manual transmission and a CVT transmission is that a manual transmission has a much wider range of gear ratios between the lowest gear ratio and the highest. Most scooters with a CVT have a high enough top ratio for their power output, but their lowest available ratio is nowhere near as low as that on most manual transmissions. In order to climb steep grades with a small low powered engine, you need a super low gear ratio, so that engine can spin in it's powerband while the bike is moving very slow. Honda got it right with the dual range transmissions in their CT70, CT90, and CT110. Those bikes were geared so low you could climb anything with their tiny little engines. There's nothing magic about any transmission, manual or automatic. It's just a device that allows a wide range of leverage between the engine and rear wheel, so you can get that engines power to the ground under all operating speeds and conditions. A CVT with a super low "crawler" gear ratio would work just fine both off road and climbing steep grades on road. So far I have yet to see one.

Another way to put it, is a 125cc motorcycle with 6 speeds, compared to a 125cc scooter with a CVT. First gear on the motorcycle is extremely low, allowing the engine to keep it's rpms up while the bike is not moving very fast. A CVT scooter on the other hand is missing gears one, two, and three, it's lowest possible ratio is about where fourth gear would be on the six speed motorcycle. Try climbing a long steep grade in 4th gear on a 6 speed motorcycle and see what happens. You will be lugging the engine like crazy, and it will finally stall. Thats also why a 6 speed manual transmission bike will easily out accelerate a CVT bike even on level ground, as it allows you to keep the revs up. While the CVT bike slowly lugs it's way up to cruising speed, you can shift the manual transmission bike at full throttle at or near redline starting in first gear. Even if both bikes have the same top speed, you will get there a lot faster with a manual transmission if you use the throttle and shifter aggressively.
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