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Old 12-27-2012, 05:57 AM   #1
Byron1 OP
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Question Electronic copy of Clymer / Haynes manual??

Morning all.

Has anyone got a copy of / point me in the direction of where I can find an electronic copy (preferably in PDF) of a Haynes or Clymer Manual for airheads?

I have already tried the usual channels such as Amazon etc but dont seem to have any joy.

Thanks,

Byron
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:01 AM   #2
ignatz72
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If there are any, they are illegal.

The Clymer is only $40. Buy it, or the Haynes.

If everyone resorts to illegal copies of these manuals, we may find the companies stopping printing of the real deal. Then where would we be?
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:01 AM   #3
blaine.hale
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The haynes does not exist in the digital realm, that I'm aware of. I've searched for a long time.
It would be handy to just have a small laptop in my shop with it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:02 AM   #4
blaine.hale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignatz72 View Post
If there are any, they are illegal.

The Clymer is only $40. Buy it, or the Haynes.

If everyone resorts to illegal copies of these manuals, we may find the companies stopping printing of the real deal. Then where would we be?
Not totally true. Digital sales account for far more $$ than physical books these days. If haynes or clymer ever officially released digital copies, they'd stand to make a nice chunk of change from the honest folks.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:10 AM   #5
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Thanks guys. I am not trying to condone piracy here, but I have been carrying a Clymer manual with me in my pannier arouund the world. I would happily buy an electronic copy if I could find one. I bought a hard copy before I left as I was a bit nervous about not knowing what to do in certain situations should the bike break down. Nice to have with me but as you probably know it is neither light nor small.

We have relatives visiting us in Colombia at the moment and I want to offload a load of our stuff for them to take home. The girlfriend has agreed to let a few pairs of shoes go if I get rid of the manual....
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:25 AM   #6
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Hello !
you can cheat a little...
As you need the Clymer for one bike only (yours), you can prune off the pages you do not need (for example the pages related for 4 gears tranny if you have a 5 gears) this way, and provided the girlfriend loose the shoes, you'll be light going home....
When I bought my Clymer, I received a survey asking if I would be interested by a new edition in digital form. So they are thinking about it. But you may be back at home when it is available...
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgesgiralt View Post
Hello !
you can cheat a little...
As you need the Clymer for one bike only (yours), you can prune off the pages you do not need (for example the pages related for 4 gears tranny if you have a 5 gears) this way, and provided the girlfriend loose the shoes, you'll be light going home....
When I bought my Clymer, I received a survey asking if I would be interested by a new edition in digital form. So they are thinking about it. But you may be back at home when it is available...
Great idea - thank you! Now I think about it, there is a load of stuff at the start of the book too on tools and how to wash the bike etc.. that can go.

Her folks are heading home tomorrow morning so unless I manage to find an electronic copy of one this afternoon I'll start pruning tonight.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:55 AM   #8
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Comes up 6 times a year. I'm confident in telling you it does not exist. The Haynes manual is smaller ya' know. But you would probably not want to switch brands in the middle of the stream, as it were.

It's hard to say which parts could be cut out and then the book still be usable. If you try this there is not much sense in sending half the book home. If you cut the book up it will probably never be stitched back together again. Still if she would get rid of just one pair of shoes for half a book, maybe, it's worth it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaine.hale View Post
Not totally true. Digital sales account for far more $$ than physical books these days. If haynes or clymer ever officially released digital copies, they'd stand to make a nice chunk of change from the honest folks.
Agreed, e-publishing is growing, but all the kinks have not been worked out enough for it to be a common-place alternative. In the publisher's eyes, that kink is copyright protection.

The Haynes is only available in print, and the Clymer has some "Online" versions, not PDF (but none for our Airheads). Online-only availability or Flash-based proprietary viewers are generally used to protect the publisher's copyright. This usually limits true electronic portability (Is there wifi here in BFE? Can my iPhone run a Flash e-reader? Etc.).

We all know that people occasionally pop in to ask for PDFs of manuals around here, and many may be of the generation that thinks if it exists online, it must be OK. Others think since they already have it, why shouldn't They share it? Publishers fear this most of all!

To avoid damage to the publishers that support our BMWs, and the hosts of this forum, I think there needs to be more of us pointing out that it is not OK.

I'm not in the publishing, legal, or content protection biz, but I am in IT Support. And believe me, copyright and licensing protection/education is one of the toughest parts of my job - because you have to change perceptions about who owns electronic property (hint - it's not the guy who paid to download/install it!).

[wet-blanket rant mode off]

I appreciate that the Bryon1's question was asked innocently enough but the short answer is still nope.
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ignatz72 screwed with this post 12-27-2012 at 10:57 AM
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #10
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It would be great to have either one while on a road trip uploaded to a tablet.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:37 PM   #11
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I've got the hard copy of the factory manual which never sees greasy fingers, but before that I got hold of an online version of the same which I printed off to a ring binder sized format - this is what I use out in the shop. I'm pretty sure that it's still out there and you could save that in electronic form for travel purposes. I used to see guys posting the link to it every so often.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:39 PM   #12
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Ignatz72: I understand where you are coming from. I wouldnt go into a shop and steal a book so what makes it ok for me to download a copy off the web? It is an interesting debate.

However.. For the benefit of those that want to know I managed to locate the PDF of the factory manual for R series bikes from 88 - 96. Unfortunately for me this does not cover my bike so will have to keep looking.

"LINK REMOVED"

I do not condone piracy, I am merely pointing out this is available... You are all adults capable of understanding the law and / or the moral and ethical debate. I'll let you decide for yourself if you want it.

If Haynes / Clymer were on the ball and offered this electronically I would be more than happy to pay for it. Surely it wouldn't be that much work for them to put it into electronic format? I have sent both companies an email, if / when I get a response I will update accordingly.

Byron1 screwed with this post 12-28-2012 at 09:12 AM
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignatz72 View Post
Agreed, e-publishing is growing, but all the kinks have not been worked out enough for it to be a common-place alternative. In the publisher's eyes, that kink is copyright protection.
Copy protection is no longer a kink. eBooks from Amazon and Apple have built-in DRM. Both stores have low barriers of entry for publishers to sell using their marketplace.

Of course, this assumes you believe DRM is truly a barrier to piracy, and a paper copy is more secure. I'd say a paper copy of the Clymer manual is no more secure than a digital copy purchased from either of the above stores: http://www.diybookscanner.org/

The real kink is publishers not wanting/knowing how to come to terms with what the future of book retailing is going to look like.

Sorry for the off-topic rant, I do work in publishing, and specifically digital publishing. Many of the bigger publishers have figured out that DRM is, at best, a frustrating mess, and at worst makes their products unusable for paying customers.

brocktoon screwed with this post 12-27-2012 at 01:57 PM
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:42 PM   #14
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@Bryon1: Yes, Google knows, I know, and many others know that that BMW manual is out there. That doesn't mean that it needs to be linked here. The ADV rules actually state it, and the mods have stated it before that linking to copyrighted material is a no-no. In this crazy, litigious, internet world, ADV could be held liable for links to such.

This was what I was trying to prevent. And I'm not singling you out, again, every few weeks somebody pops in with the same questions, and it rarely gets challenged when it should.



@broktoon: You will certainly have more experience from a publisher's perspective, but as a consumer, I do see the current landscape of all the various DRM schemes and proprietary viewers, etc., as a pretty big kink! And I agree, that the e-publishing scene is much like the e-music scene of the late 90's. But whereas Apple was able to herd cats with a few big players in the music industry when they all had their own hair-brained distribution and copy-protection schemes, the only bigger herd of cats than music is the book publishing industry, right? As far as I know, there has yet to be a major player that champions an industry-standard format that a majority of publishers would be happy to get on board with. I guess arguments could be made that this is Apple or Amazon, but until we talk about an e-book standard like we do MP3s, there is no unified book/e-book distribution future, no sure-fire compatible, secure, solution for all electronic devices. Until then, consumers are left with a hodgepodge of various publisher-created solutions like proprietary software and hardware players, or requiring an internet connection to read your e-book. Like many others, I would LOVE to have an electronic copy of a book that I have legally purchased to pull up on my iPhone when I'm stranded on the road, but who's to say the various e-book format-du-jour will actually work on my iPhone. My money today says it won't. And this is likely what drives individuals to look for illicitly scanned copies of what they want, just like back in the Napster days with music. DRM does not solve the problem of piracy until DRM doesn't cause it's own problems. I mean, how frustrating is the e-book scene when people will go through the trouble to scan their own books using methods in the link above? Sheesh!

It is an interesting discussion.
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ignatz72 screwed with this post 12-27-2012 at 03:50 PM
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:53 PM   #15
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[QUOTE= Like many others, I would LOVE to have an electronic copy of a book that I have legally purchased to pull up on my iPhone when I'm stranded on the road, but who's to say the various e-book format-du-jour will actually work on my iPhone. My money today says it won't. [/QUOTE]

My legally bought BMW shop manual measures 8 1/4" x 6" x 5/8" - the size of a medium sized paperback book. My guess is that they made it that size to pack along on long trips without taking up too much space. No batteries to worry about. And it's a lot better than the Clymer or the Haynes put together. Sometimes the new technologies don't make as much sense - which is probably the reason we as a group chose to ride airheads in the first place.
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