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Old 02-22-2013, 09:03 PM   #16
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I am just going by a couple of pictures posted on this site. The filters looked pretty filthy to me and enough so to be an obstacle to push gas through. I assume that controller is going raise amperage until it gets the pressure requested, as measured at the fuel rail.

The pre filter is supposed to be 10 microns. I would expect the the post pump filter to be similar.

You don't change gas filters in your car with each oil change? My Jiffy lube guy tells me I need one.
My guy is a prince ... he lets me go with every OTHER oil change,
and since he only charge $180 + installation I'm a sport ....
Ok ... naw ... I'm not a freaking sport....

Seriously, yeah I'm with you they do look filthy ...
That's why I have the on my face ... my car burns gas from the same stations and has burned lots more of it and has no issues ....
A couple years back I did change the filter on my 1986 Toyota and for grins cut the old one open ... It looked new inside........

I hate to even say it, but could the insides of our gas tanks be shedding?
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:00 PM   #17
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I thought all of that had been covered. Fuel pumps dissolve at the sight of Ethanol and all the aluminum oxide plugs the filters.

We need the economy size filters.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
After seeing a couple of fuel filters I am leaning towards they being the culprit in a lot of these fuel pump failures.

The fuel flow is dictated by the ECU in 2 ways. It controls how long the injector is held open and what pressure the pump puts out. The fuel controller does its job by increasing amperage to the pump which dictates how fast it works, ie pressure.

Put a dirty fuel filter in the mix and that has to have a bad effect somewhere trying to over come it.

How is that for non technical theory?
Pretty good I Recon.
Chris, I had the same problems as you on my aborted trip to the OCR in August.
It got worse, to the point where the bike was basically unridable.
After faffing around for ages, I found the filter was full of shit and not replaceable.
Have a squiz at this, I think it may contain the answer to your problem
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=834239
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:04 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I thought all of that had been covered. Fuel pumps dissolve at the sight of Ethanol and all the aluminum oxide plugs the filters.

We need the economy size filters.
Yeah... you're right we did ...
I'm following too many threads....
It may be time to toss the Mahle and put in a Holly ... the small replaceable filter element fits better in my toolkit anyway
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:14 AM   #20
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G/day all

I have some interesting info re my motor shutting down.
Finally got to go to my BMW shop, BM Motorcycles in Ringwood, Melbourne.
They are not a dealership, but a private BMW repair shop, IMHO one of the best in Oz.

I have just returned from NZ and this was the first time to be able to ride to Melbourne from where I live, (240kms).

Their opinion is that it is not a fuel vapourisation (sp?) in the fuel tank, but rather fuel boiling in the fuel line from the pump to the injectors creating a fuel blockage (ie air bubbles) especially after a hi speed run in very hot weather, turning the motor off, then restarting, which is exactly what happened to my bike. Solution is to run the motor flat out, to get rid of the blockages, or let it cool down.

Their reasoning/logic is
As there is no return fuel line back to the fuel tank, A, the tank can't overheat and B, the only way to flush the air pockets out is through the injectors. Hence the stop starting, farting etc, as the injectors get deprived of fuel.

Interesting.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:53 AM   #21
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I see their reasoning but that raises a question also.......

In my experience with the BMW fuel injected bikes, the pressure side- between the pump and injectors- maintains its pressure for quite a while after shut down. Fuel under pressure vapourizes at much higher temps, likely hotter than what you're seeing.

So maybe this goes back to the pump being faulty?????? Not sure how the pressure is maintained- built in check valve or? Why aren't all the F8's doing this? Lots of places are as hot as.......OZ.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:36 AM   #22
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It is an interesting question, as I have put about 12000 miles on my 8gs....2009.... in the hot desert...many times in over 40 deg. C. Without any problems at all.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:43 AM   #23
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From what was explained to me, the F800GS pump is controlled by a seperate module that varies the voltage to the pump as decided by the electronic brain.

When they hooked up the bike to their computer, it displayed that a fuel pump fault had occurred, but it could not indicate if it was the fuel pump or its module.
James told me that I had the new module fitted, (it is coloured black) and I can only assume that it was fitted in the factory, (my bike is a 2010 commemorative model).

I don't know what the shut down voltage is for the bike, but if the module had shut the fuel pump down to idle/zero voltage when I first stopped, that might explain why the remaining fuel in the line had overheated.

Their take on a faulty/clogged fuel filter is that they have not had a problem, and that is on bikes with similar fuel pumps who have in excess of 200,000 kms+.

The plot thickens
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:25 AM   #24
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The "module" is the infamous fuel pump controller.
A part noted for its ability to fail exactly when you don't want it to.
Anyone who is contemplating any trip on an F650 or F800 should know the bypass procedure or have made (or bought and gotten screwed on the price) a bypass cable. The new black powdercoated ones are supposed to be better.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:11 AM   #25
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Yours being a 2010 would have the latest fuel pump controller for sure. The old ones were "shiny" metallic colour and the new are black. The old ones caused most of their trouble on the 1200GS's before the F8's were born. There was some spillover of parts onto the F8's at first but were quickly replaced. I have a shiny one as a spare (was free). A lot of the problem on the 12GS's was the location of the controller (top front of the tank) cause it collected water which got under it and caused shorting. The F8's location is protected mostly, under the seat. Most late model BMW's use the same controller so swapping with another bike is a good troubleshooting trick. Like on twin engine aircraft, you just keep swapping parts left to right till the problem changes sides.

It sounds like OZ gas is like our Canadian stuff. We very rarely have issues with pumps and clogged filters. Or cracked tanks for some reason. You can't go anywhere without seeing a GS so it's not like they're rare. There was an F800S having hot shutdowns a few years back and we couldn't find the fault, before all this web stuff showed up. BMW Canada gave him a new bike as a goodwill gesture. We then replaced the entire fuel system and electronics and sold it trouble free. The old parts went to the lab.

The fuel delivery system is simple, aside from the programming. Pump, lines, regulator, computer and controller. Pump pressurizes lines, regulator reports pressure, computer determines if pressure meets needs, tells controller to speed pump up or down as required. I still think your pump is not doing what it's told but I'm not there. I'm stuck in snow wishing it was too hot. Sorry bout yer luck.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:30 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by McCardigan View Post
When they hooked up the bike to their computer, it displayed that a fuel pump fault had occurred, but it could not indicate if it was the fuel pump or its module.

I don't know what the shut down voltage is for the bike, but if the module had shut the fuel pump down to idle/zero voltage when I first stopped, that might explain why the remaining fuel in the line had overheated.

I'm assuming your shop used a proper BMW computer to get the faults? It would tell the number of ocurrences, the mileage at the time as well as other engine conditions like temp and RPM. Not always helpful but somewhat.

The fuel lines are always pressurized, even at idle. The pump always runs. When you twist the throttle, you lower the pressure due to demand so the pump runs faster to keep up. The only time the pump stops with the key on is just before you start it, or otherwise with the engine stopped, key on. Pull the seat off, put your ear close to the tank and turn the key on. You'll hear the pump run briefly then stop. The system is now pressurized and the pump stops. How long that pressure holds is anybody's guess. I've disconnected fuel lines on bikes that had overnighted in the shop and they were still pressurized. Other times, nothing. This was back when the fuel level senders were bad so I did lots of F GS's at a time.

At this point, all I can say is "Good Luck".
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:39 PM   #27
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The old fuel pump controllers were dull gray normal metal color.
You will find moisture or traces of moisture below the fuel pump controllers mounted under the seat. The gray ones were shit quality, like the air filters that collapsed, the chains and sprockets, the rear wheel bearings, steering bearings, brake disc bolts, ...
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:18 PM   #28
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I've had similiar issues with the fuel pump. Initially on very hot days and low fuel it would cut out. First time I was out in the middle of nowhere (plenty hw 250km from Jervois for the Aussies) bike would stall then fire up about every 3-5km then it got to about 300-500m of failing/firing. At Jervois station we pull the pump out and it was so hot you couldn't touch it. after reinstall and full tank, no problems

The last major occurance it didn't matter if I had a full tank or not and the weather only had to be moderately warm. I replaced the pump with a High flow unit and have not had any issues since. My own little theory was that the pump was sticking when it got too hot and then worn enough that it didn't require the same amount of heat as previously to shut down. Anyway all good with the new pump, but I don't know if this is the root cause of the problem. Time will tell I guess.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:45 PM   #29
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I suspect postage from down under would be a killer, but just as a general "public service" announcement ... If someone in the USA looses a fuel pump perhaps you could send it on a "vacation" :

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=872534
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:09 PM   #30
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Next time it happens, open your fuel cap for a second and see if that helps. Maybe the tank breather is choked

Causing a pressure in the tank causing vacuum pressure type issues

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