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Old 03-14-2013, 05:06 PM   #31
Stan_R80/7
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The value of a $1.00 sharpie marker can be amplified many times by the amount of grief such a marker can save when used to mark parts. A digital camera is a modern marvel when used to record disassembly and the images can be extremely useful for reassembly. For the ding, unless you want abrasive grit in your engine, don't use sandpaper. Use a small file to remove the raised section of metal around the ding. Hardware stores and Harbor Freight stores sell such files. Some duct or other tape will help keep any aluminum filings out of the crankcase - if you are careful. I wish you luck!
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:12 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
The value of a $1.00 sharpie marker can be amplified many times by the amount of grief such a marker can save when used to mark parts. A digital camera is a modern marvel when used to record disassembly and the images can be extremely useful for reassembly. For the ding, unless you want abrasive grit in your engine, don't use sandpaper. Use a small file to remove the raised section of metal around the ding. Hardware stores and Harbor Freight stores sell such files. Some duct or other tape will help keep any aluminum filings out of the crankcase - if you are careful. I wish you luck!
thanks. I have everything in baggies and properly labeled with a sharpie, specific to the side of the engine. I'm very good at documenting with a camera, too, this just slipped my mind
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:15 PM   #33
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All rings are out of spec. Here is my 3rd/oil ring and a .40mm feeler. It looks like it's out of spec about .10mm more. The top and middle ring are out of spec by .5-.15mm as well. Any recs for good rings?
This probably explains why I had tons of black carbon build up near the push rod seals and on the backs of the Bings. :/

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Old 03-14-2013, 05:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by khale View Post
Wouldn't ya know it, this dummy lost track of which cylinder is left and right (sitting on the bike, looking down). Is there anyway to determine left or right cylinder from the numbers on the cylinders?

Pushrod tubes go down, exhaust threads face forward.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by khale View Post
All rings are out of spec. Here is my 3rd/oil ring and a .40mm feeler. It looks like it's out of spec about .10mm more. The top and middle ring are out of spec by .5-.15mm as well. Any recs for good rings?
This probably explains why I had tons of black carbon build up near the push rod seals and on the backs of the Bings. :/
Um...no. Check your breather setup. The rings are close enough, Install, drive, enjoy.

I just put a caliper on a business card, it's .25mm thick. A hair plucked from an eyebrow is .05 mm. So you're off the thickness of two eyebrow hairs. Carbon builds up on the ends of rings. The error in question is completely trivial in light of this. You have so many bigger fish to fry.

Plaka screwed with this post 03-14-2013 at 05:29 PM
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:23 PM   #36
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The cylinders are always dirtier on the front.

I wouldn't do like Duane Asherman and think you are measuring cylinder wear by the ring gap. The ring gap was often out of spec too big when the bike was brand new. The cylinders were often worn out brand new according to BMW. Some experience with these bikes will have you realizing that many of their specs are optimistically on the tight side. They never ran many of their specs as tight as they claim.

Why measure the rod bearings. There is only one size available. Look at them. If they look OK, they are OK. The problem with that is you have to know how they look brand new but . . . .

New rings? It's a toss up. I think I would keep those. The thing that wears is the top of the top ring groove in the piston. You can see it with a magnifying glass if it is worn. New pistons are the only fix for that. My R100 had one wearing but it had 101,000 miles on it. I would probably just wash the cylinders. I might dingle berry a high mileage setup but I try not to. Hones? I have never used anything but Sunnen. IMO they are so much better than other hones I don't even go there. Other brand hones aren't really even hones IMO. Same deal with Sunnen valve guide hones but then you have to get your guide ID undersized!

The rocker arms on your bike are often toast with low mileage. The bushing ID wears. The bushing OD wears and the bushing start spinning in the rocker arms and wear the rocker arms out and at the same time wear the rocker arm shafts out. I have seen it numerous times. They are rarely in good shape when I look at them. The best way to fix those is to get later rocker arms. They have their issues but they are still are WAY better than the bushed setup.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:24 PM   #37
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Pushrod tubes go down, exhaust threads face forward.
Ha, not the direction, I'm not that dense. I'm talking about which cylinder goes on which side of the engine block.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:27 PM   #38
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The rings are close enough, Install, drive, enjoy.
Care to elaborate? The rings are out of spec per the manual. How do people determine when it's time to replace rings if we aren't going by a guide, such a Hayne's?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:36 PM   #39
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Care to elaborate? The rings are out of spec per the manual. How do people determine when it's time to replace rings if we aren't going by a guide, such a Hayne's?
I go by leak down, compression test, and inspection. The piston tops look good.

A lot of oil can get by the guides. How do they feel?

Like I said earlier, lots of them came out of spec brand new.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:40 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
I go by leak down, compression test, and inspection. The piston tops look good.

A lot of oil can get by the guides. How do they feel?

Like I said earlier, lots of them came out of spec brand new.
What do you mean how do they feel? I've never done this before so I have no idea on what to go by other than advice here and the hayne's, ha
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:48 PM   #41
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What do you mean how do they feel? I've never done this before so I have no idea on what to go by other than advice here and the hayne's, ha
And you are getting advise here? I hope you have your fingers crossed regardless. A little luck never hurts the first ten or so times you do something.

I can't explain it and I think you are better off feeling the fit versus measuring it unless you have a bore dial gauge.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:42 PM   #42
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Do you mean 15mm?

What are the specs and what do you have one more time please.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:50 PM   #43
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Do you mean 15mm?

What are the specs and what do you have one more time please.
top ring, spec is .30 - .45mm; mine is at least .55mm or higher
middle ring, spec is .30 - .45mm; mine is at least .55mm or higher
bottom ring (oil ring), spec is .25 - .40mm; mine is at least .50mm or higher

What I'm getting at is all my rings are out of spec by .10mm - .15mm at least. Some folks here are saying take the out of spec philosophy with a grain of salt, and I need clarification on that, and what 'feel' is.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:52 PM   #44
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The cylinder heads can be only installed on the correct side to get the exhaust ports pointed forward, see? And the cylinders were exposed to the grit and abrasive substances kicked up from the road on their leading edge. If you look at the push rod tubes you will see one edge shows this collection of abuse from the direction of travel.

New rings are not sized correctly. At least according to the book. Compared to some others that have been shown in these pages yours look better than most. I don't think you have any other choice other than installing what BMW sells you. Well there are other choices but there are other problems with the other choices so go with the OEM rings.

What SS says about the ring grooves seems to be the key to deciding if you need new pistons. Then you may get over sized pistons and better fitting rings to boot. But if the ring grooves are serviceable then keep the ones you got.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:03 PM   #45
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The cylinder heads can be only installed on the correct side to get the exhaust ports pointed forward, see? And the cylinders were exposed to the grit and abrasive substances kicked up from the road on their leading edge. If you look at the push rod tubes you will see one edge shows this collection of abuse from the direction of travel.
Perhaps I'm using the wrong language. I need to brush up on the Hayne's. The cylinder barrels? I need to know if there is any marking on the cylinder barrels that denote which one is the left and which one is the right.
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