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Old 03-04-2013, 08:57 PM   #16
DOUBLE-O G OP
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Originally Posted by Phipsd View Post

If I was on a long tour and I was using a top grade synthetic like Mobile1 5-40 diesel oil I would have no problem extending that to 5000 km. Given that scooters are frequently used for short trips and it's cold starts that most quickly contaminate oil, leaving the oil in for 6000 miles even with a filter isn't too bright.

It's common for European vehicles to have extended drain intervals but those long drains usually require very high spec oils not commonly used here in North America and ideal usage. If you look at how most vehicles are actually used they would qualify for the severe service drain interval.
I have owned several BMWs and they all have a 6,000 mile oil change interval. My current CBR250R has an 8,000 mile interval. The Yamaha Majesty and Tmax I owned had a 4,000 mile service interval. Even the Honda PCX has a 5,000 oil change interval. So yeah, 2,000 miles seems a little low for an oil change.

I don't know where you get the "high spec oils not commonly found here in North America"... I live in Texas and I've never heard such a thing in my life.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:16 AM   #17
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I'm not sure what living in Texas has to do with anything. SYM recommends run of the mill 10-30 for my Citycom which I'm sure will work just fine if changed at the specified interval.

That's also what was recommended in my 1967 Honda 90 ( I still have the manual ) but I'm sure that's not what Honda specifies now. That Honda also had a six hundred mile oil change interval.

Don't forget that companies like SYM sell the biggest number of their bikes in third world countries people where will use whatever they can get. The bike will be the main family vehicle and will be run into the ground. Making the bike last as long as possible becomes the absolute priority.

In North America we have the luxury of buying more expensive oils. Here the motorcycle is a toy and is unlikely to be run far enough to actually wear out. Convenience is more important to most people than squeezing every last mile out of their purchase. People tend not to ride their bikes much here. If that 8000 mile oil change CBR lasts 40,000 miles here, that's likely more than ten years of use for the average CBR.

One thing my resident engineer ( a retired Navy Chief ) taught me a long time ago. The single most important thing you can do to make your engine last a long time is to keep clean oil in it, even if you do nothing else. SYM engines are as modern and good as anybody's.

So the question then becomes: " How long do you want your engine to last"?

SYM has taken a very conservative approach in their recommmendations.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:47 AM   #18
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My GY6 based 125cc Kymco had 1250 mile intervals.

Not surprising since the oil capacity is as big as your average beer can,
and there's no filter.

That oil got dirty very fast.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phipsd View Post
I'm not sure what living in Texas has to do with anything.
Because you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phipsd View Post
usually require very high spec oils not commonly used here in North America
And aren't you contradicting yourself a bit here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phipsd View Post
In North America we have the luxury of buying more expensive oils.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:17 AM   #20
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Europe uses the ACEA rating while the US uses API.

http://www.noln.net/images/euro_oil_specs_2011.pdf

Most of our synthetic oil in the US is hydro-cracked group 111 conventional oil that is allowed to be called full synthetic.

Real synthetic oil is polyalphaolefin group IV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

This came about in the early 90s when Castrol started using group 111 hydro-cracked oil and calling it full synthetic, Mobil called foul and complained to the national advertising division of the better business bureau. The NAD ruled in castrols favor and the rest is history. Every one does it now.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...=950311&page=1

IN Europe they have to state if the oil is group 111 hydro-cracked or group IV real synthetid. The US does not have to do this .
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:21 AM   #21
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Filter vs screen?

Cortez touched on this, but isn't it possible that the SYM's shorter service interval is mainly just a function of the fact that they use a screen instead of a normal particulate filter like a BMW or Kymco?

Nothing terribly wrong with screens- my '68 VW had one, but it does provide only limited filtering. The upside is that users are able to maintain their vehicle without having to source filters.

Doesn't this render the discussion somewhat moot, since it's likely not so much oil breakdown that drives the shorter intervals but rather particles getting past the screen, which are better off getting removed via oil change?

I certainly wouldn't dismiss getting a SYM just because of more frequent oil changes; in fact, I might consider it a benefit.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:56 AM   #22
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Cortez touched on this, but isn't it possible that the SYM's shorter service interval is mainly just a function of the fact that they use a screen instead of a normal particulate filter like a BMW or Kymco?

Nothing terribly wrong with screens- my '68 VW had one, but it does provide only limited filtering. The upside is that users are able to maintain their vehicle without having to source filters.

Doesn't this render the discussion somewhat moot, since it's likely not so much oil breakdown that drives the shorter intervals but rather particles getting past the screen, which are better off getting removed via oil change?

I certainly wouldn't dismiss getting a SYM just because of more frequent oil changes; in fact, I might consider it a benefit.
The Honda Nighthawk 250 has a similar system. No oil filter, just a screen, low oil capacity. Sym isn't the only manufacturer or the first one to use such a design.

Anyway, I'm glad we all got to share.

In the meantime, anyone heard anything about a possible X-Max 400?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:03 AM   #23
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Looks like it happened:

http://www.scooter-station.com/Yamah...s-400-ABS.html

31.5 HP
15" wheel at the front and 13" at the back
211 kgs ready to go (about 460 pounds)
5999 euros.

Will it come to the US? Will it replace the Majesty 400?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:07 AM   #24
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Yamaha France for more pics:

http://www2.yamaha-motor.fr/actu/spip.php?article3840

Other French website:

http://www.scooter-infos.com/photos-...-mai-2013.html

The engine is from the Yamaha Majesty. I guess it has been reworked a bit since it makes a little less power.

It comes out in May in France. I hope it makes it to the US as a 2014 model this Summer/ Fall.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:08 AM   #25
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:10 AM   #26
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:11 AM   #27
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:11 AM   #28
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:12 AM   #29
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:12 AM   #30
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