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Old 06-15-2013, 04:31 PM   #181
Wind_Rider OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportsGuy View Post
Wind - thank you for this review. :)

OK, so you get a more offroad oriented dual sport with the FX, but the DS gives much more usable range it appears...

Logical combo would be the DS "train" in the FX chassis... *sigh*
SportsGuy,

I was thinking that it would be great if Zero would come out with some add on battery modules for the FX... If they made a couple of more battery modules that could mount on the sides of the existing battery frame then you could theoretically run a battery capacity from about 3 - 11 KW depending on how far the planned ride was. You could also ride the bike very light for short spins.

I also thought that if they just stuck 2 more batteries of the same style out the sides of the existing battery frame it would look kind of like a futuristic battery beemer.....
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:05 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
Electric is all well and good except for the fact, yes fact, that most riders enjoy having a real engine purring and grunting and making all of those thousands of explosions per minute while they ride. I don't know any rider at all that wants to ride a prius around in the woods or on the road.

Sorry for the buzzkill but this is a viewpoint that the majority of riders have and the primary one, not the technological one, that EV riders and makers will need to address before they get any sort of foothold in the market.

Riding a motorcycle for many people is about image and the thrill of having power under their control - a silent electric bike that can barely do a power wheelie (only some of the models) is a major turnoff. No sex appeal. No power. No distance, no freedom. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Good points SenorMoto.

I also owned a couple of Buell Ulysses motorcycles and racked up more than 50K miles on the pair of them. The Buells were great bikes to feed all of the urges that you mention. I have a great appreciation for all things mechanical and the fun of riding an ICE motorcycle is something that I was worried about losing when I went all electric this year.

However, I have found to my chagrin, that I do not miss any of that. I considered myself fairly skilled with clutch, throttle, and gear selections but after riding the Zero it is more fun to just twist the throttle and let the electric motor deliver perfectly linear power. Not dealing with any of that frees up the rider to just focus on the road or trail and the bike's relationship to it. The Zero is really fun to ride.

I also really like the Zero doing nothing at "idle". It was easy for me to get used to it and now when I am sitting at a stoplight next to all of the ICE engines idling along they seem so wasteful.

Of course, you, or other riders may feel differently but I am really enjoying the transition to Electric power personally. The one thing that I am really missing is the ability to take a day long 250-400 mile ride across some of Idaho's scenic byways. If I could do that on Electric power, I would never want another ICE motorcycle.

It is interesting to look at Brammo's approach to the Electric Motorcycle. Their bike is more focused to address your concerns as it has a regular clutch and transmission and it is more performance focused. I think that SenorMoto might like a ride on the Brammo Empulse R model? http://www.brammo.com/empulse/

As far as power goes E Bikes can be made to be ferociously powerful and I think that the future models are going to be pretty exciting. The visceral feel of an ICE powerband will likely not be there though, as smooth and linear power is completely possible. The motor controller could be programmed to simulate a peaky ICE power curve but why do that?

I think that the Zero approach is better for an E Bike but it will not appeal to everyone and E Bikes will be different. If sound is a big thing to you the newer models with more power make more noise but it is a different kind of noise for sure.

I would not equate riding a Zero to a Prius... it is much more exciting and fun than that.

I think that the future has room for both E Bikes and ICE bikes. If my wallet gets fatter by next year I would like to add an ICE bike to the stable again and I don't see the future as a pure electric world, but I would ride my Zero DS over anything else as long as the range is sufficient for the ride.

The Zero is just fun to ride and I find the lack of using foreign fuels to be personally freeing as well. On my commute to work I go right past a hydro dam and it is nice to know that the power coming from there, just a few miles from my house, is powering my commute and all of my pleasure rides as well.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:08 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp View Post
im glad you are doing this long term test.
it needed to be done.
Thanks Swamp!

I thought the same thing. Of course, since EBikes are so new, there have been few chances to do a real long term review. I hope that this thread can show the benefits and downsides of Electric motorcycles from the owner's perspective.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:42 PM   #184
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Just read the last 13 pages with complete fascination. Windriver, thanks for taking the time to do this. I've had some 70 bikes over almost 50 years, hundreds of thousands of miles.....I enjoy racing my Husaberg 390 and tracking my Tuono Factory. I have not ridden a Zero yet but, want one now......and you sir, come across as an exceptional individual.
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:53 PM   #185
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I must have missed the survey señor moto took saying most motorcycle riders love to hear the engine sound cuz I could have added a vote Opposite that. I ride a r1200gs and think its really loud with ear plugs, hate it. I also would love to ride a electric bike in the woods, silent, no clutch work through technical stuff, sounds intoxicating, no pun intended. just have to wait till they get the range increased before I buy. hopefully I don't fall to in love after I test ride in a few weeks cause I need more range. keep the info coming wind rider, great job.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:43 PM   #186
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To quote

Agent Smith, "This eBike intrigues me."

Great thread, Wind_Rider. Thanks and keep it coming.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:22 PM   #187
sendler
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Terry's Zero has a new look.
.
.

.
.
http://craigvetter.com/pages/2013%20...shner-p63.html
.
.
.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:56 PM   #188
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70 miles on a charge? Nice, but I'll pass.
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:44 AM   #189
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70 miles is fine with my short commute.
gasup every 2 1/2 to 3 weeks replaced by recharging every couple nights is great
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:20 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind_Rider View Post
Good points SenorMoto.

I also owned a couple of Buell Ulysses motorcycles and racked up more than 50K miles on the pair of them. The Buells were great bikes to feed all of the urges that you mention. I have a great appreciation for all things mechanical and the fun of riding an ICE motorcycle is something that I was worried about losing when I went all electric this year.

However, I have found to my chagrin, that I do not miss any of that. I considered myself fairly skilled with clutch, throttle, and gear selections but after riding the Zero it is more fun to just twist the throttle and let the electric motor deliver perfectly linear power. Not dealing with any of that frees up the rider to just focus on the road or trail and the bike's relationship to it. The Zero is really fun to ride.

I also really like the Zero doing nothing at "idle". It was easy for me to get used to it and now when I am sitting at a stoplight next to all of the ICE engines idling along they seem so wasteful.

Of course, you, or other riders may feel differently but I am really enjoying the transition to Electric power personally. The one thing that I am really missing is the ability to take a day long 250-400 mile ride across some of Idaho's scenic byways. If I could do that on Electric power, I would never want another ICE motorcycle.

It is interesting to look at Brammo's approach to the Electric Motorcycle. Their bike is more focused to address your concerns as it has a regular clutch and transmission and it is more performance focused. I think that SenorMoto might like a ride on the Brammo Empulse R model? http://www.brammo.com/empulse/

As far as power goes E Bikes can be made to be ferociously powerful and I think that the future models are going to be pretty exciting. The visceral feel of an ICE powerband will likely not be there though, as smooth and linear power is completely possible. The motor controller could be programmed to simulate a peaky ICE power curve but why do that?

I think that the Zero approach is better for an E Bike but it will not appeal to everyone and E Bikes will be different. If sound is a big thing to you the newer models with more power make more noise but it is a different kind of noise for sure.

I would not equate riding a Zero to a Prius... it is much more exciting and fun than that.

I think that the future has room for both E Bikes and ICE bikes. If my wallet gets fatter by next year I would like to add an ICE bike to the stable again and I don't see the future as a pure electric world, but I would ride my Zero DS over anything else as long as the range is sufficient for the ride.

The Zero is just fun to ride and I find the lack of using foreign fuels to be personally freeing as well. On my commute to work I go right past a hydro dam and it is nice to know that the power coming from there, just a few miles from my house, is powering my commute and all of my pleasure rides as well.
Great response. I can imagine a quiet electric bike being amazing for riding near wilderness areas; you would see more wildlife, hear the wind and the surroundings more, and generally be more in tune with nature while still having the fun of riding a motorcycle.

As for range and fuel economy - and being better for the environment - I was just looking at these bikes. If they could combine electric and gas for a hybrid system this would be a really fun solution:
http://www.fxbikes.com/2011/11/26/fx...e-motorcycles/
http://www.fxbikes.com/wp-content/up...Army-Green.jpg
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:57 PM   #191
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Add me to the crowd that would rather not hear engine noise while out in the woods. Around town, I really don't care as I hear the noise of every other engine around me anyways.


@Wind_Rider, great thread, thanks for taking the time to write it up.


I want one, but convincing the wife to let me drop 14k-16k isn't gonna happen any time soon. I only have a four mile commute to and from work. And this little valley isn't all that big, so all my running around could easily be done w/i the valley.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:44 AM   #192
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Justa coupla thoughts

image/sex appeal..

the entire tenor of this thread has nought to do with these things SenorMoto...but I think you already know that...as per the Authors reply you can see that he doesn't wish to make extinct ICE bikes those for whom sex appeal and image are motivations...

also, asserting that an electric engine is less "real" is not very good debating.
its non-standard, no doubt.

I am a new rider... bought an Piaggio MP3500 to just get used to being uncaged on highways, bought a BMWXchallenge after about 5k... and have put about another 5k under the wheels. The BMW obviously has more pep and torque and it's kinda cool to lift the front wheel ever so slightly pulling away from city traffic...

You might have fun test riding the 2013 iterations of a Zero. I did. The acceleration is pretty damned impressive. If wheelies you want, try an FX...

all the issues regarding range are valid... of course...

as he said. there be room for both...
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Old 06-29-2013, 04:30 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by señormoto View Post
Great response. I can imagine a quiet electric bike being amazing for riding near wilderness areas; you would see more wildlife, hear the wind and the surroundings more, and generally be more in tune with nature while still having the fun of riding a motorcycle.
Yes, that part is a lot of fun and better than riding gas.

As for range and fuel economy - and being better for the environment - I was just looking at these bikes. If they could combine electric and gas for a hybrid system this would be a really fun solution:
http://www.fxbikes.com/2011/11/26/fx...e-motorcycles/
http://www.fxbikes.com/wp-content/up...Army-Green.jpg[/QUOTE]

Those FX Bikes look amazing.... I would love to ride one of those. I ride Mountain bikes and these look to be a cross between the mountain bike and motorcycle which sounds like a lot of fun for tight trail riding.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:01 PM   #194
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Longest Single Charge Ride Today .... 90 Miles

Work has kept me driving pickup trucks and off of the Zero for the last couple of weeks but today I took some time to take it out for a spin just for the fun of it. I decided to ride mostly dirt today and see how far I could go.

Started with 20 miles of twisty two lane highway and then jumped off onto some nice easy dirt road.



Of course, here in Idaho, you should know your game animals:



Stopped in Placerville to take a picture of the old and new.



Rode some Jeep trails that were pretty tight and fun.



Kept adding to the loop as time and battery power allowed and arrived at home with 90 miles on the trip meter and one bar left on the energy graph.



I might have been able to have gone 100 miles on this charge. For sure, the bike has 100 miles of range for dirt road travel as this ride had around 20 - 25 miles of pavement in it with some speeds up to 60 MPH.

It was 100 degrees at the end of the ride and batteries tend to like warmer temperatures so that probably helped range.

It is great to ride in the heat and not get more from the engine. The motor on the Zero was warm to the touch at the end of the ride but not hot. Nothing near the rider gets hot at all.

Since batteries do not like to be charged when they are hot the Zero onboard battery charger automatically charges at a lower rate to help preserve battery life.

The nice thing about riding dirt roads is that the battery charge lasts longer at lower speeds so today's ride time was over 3 hours with just a few breaks.

The Zero DS is right at home on dirt backcountry roads.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:06 PM   #195
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4,000 Mile Mark !!

The Zero will pass the 4,000 mile mark tomorrow.

Still the bike is perfect. No charging issues, no startup failures, perfect throttle response.

I did have to put some air in the tires today... what a pain keeping this motorcycle tuned up!
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