ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-10-2013, 01:43 AM   #1
Hughlysses OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Hughlysses's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Summerville, SC
Oddometer: 3,189
2014 Indian "Thunder Stroke" 111 V-Twin

The new Indian engine (the first designed since Indian was acquired by Polaris in 2011) was unveiled in Daytona last night. It looks pretty cool both cosmetically and technically. Several features of the engine match S&S's X-Wedge engine that came out a few years ago; I wonder if they had any involvement?



http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-u...=IND-camp-home

Technical article by Kevin Cameron at Cycle World: http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/03/09.../?src=facebook
__________________
2007 Buell XB12X Ulysses
1983 Honda VT500FT Ascot
Hughlysses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 03:41 AM   #2
bluesman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Hoegaarden, Belgium
Oddometer: 3,144
In my opinion it looks incredibly cool cosmetically, but totally boring technically. Combination of outdated techs driven by need to comply to "looks" with usual standard contemporary motors solutions.
Function following form. Unlike real Indian...
bluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 04:37 AM   #3
BCC
I know better
 
BCC's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Southern NJ
Oddometer: 7,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman View Post
In my opinion it looks incredibly cool cosmetically, but totally boring technically. Combination of outdated techs driven by need to comply to "looks" with usual standard contemporary motors solutions.
Function following form. Unlike real Indian...
It's a motor for a cruiser. The function of a cruiser's engine is to propel the bike in an esthetically pleasing manner. A visceral experience, where horsepower is simply one component among many.

Go to a Harley store. The bikes that sell best, look best and conform strictly to the traditional twin styling.

My bikes are Ducati Hyper S and HD Ultra. The engines provide propulsion and character. Not modernity.

I like it.
__________________
Living the fullest life means leaving a history of goodness behind you for others to remember.

Cherish the memories------Ken OBSC
BCC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 04:55 AM   #4
M3-SRT8
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Worcester, Mass
Oddometer: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman View Post
In my opinion it looks incredibly cool cosmetically, but totally boring technically. Combination of outdated techs driven by need to comply to "looks" with usual standard contemporary motors solutions.
Function following form. Unlike real Indian...
I dunno...it looks good, and sounds even better.

I heard the engine coming up thru the gears on Indian's website, and it sounded smooth, torquey, and powerful.

I can tell you what it didn't sound like. Like it was trying to shake itself to pieces, like another popular V-Twin.

To beat H-D, this engine - and bike - has to outperform it. Not just out-nostalgia it. (that's not a word, I know...).

Neither bike brand is my particular cup o' tea. But, if I had to pick one, I'd probably pick the Indian, because I want to be different, and stand out in a crowd. Something you just can't do in a herd-mentality bike like a Harley-Davidson.

BUT - the Bike would have to perform well. It would have to be built well, to the highest standard of quality, and look damn good. If you're going to make a stand with a bike like this - to go against the tide - you've got to be well-armed. You gotta have bragging rights. Indian has to build a Winchester to go up against a veritable army of trap-door Springfields.

Nostalgia alone won't save Indian, because most of the people who rode the origionals are long dead and buried. It has to strike out on a new path, and a bold one at that.

M3-SRT8 screwed with this post 03-10-2013 at 05:00 AM
M3-SRT8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 05:15 AM   #5
KingOfFleece
SplitWeight(tm)
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western New York
Oddometer: 685
Any gearhead's gotta love the engine vid. That was entertaining to say the least.
KingOfFleece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 05:19 AM   #6
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 4,503
Nice to read something by Kevin Cameron, one of my favorite motorcycle writers (along with Peter Egan) I love this engine, the looks, the simple design, the pushrods, and the sound. I certainly hope S&S doesn't have a hand in it, or it will forever bear the stigma of being yet another "Harley clone" engine. The other thing is, what is Polaris going to put it in, and what will it cost. Time and time again Indian has failed because someone tried to sell it as a "boutique" brand, for at least twice what it was worth as an actual motorcycle. Remember that Indian went under 60 years ago. No new company can build a new Indian, no matter how well they do it, and expect to cash in on the original Indian's history and heritage. It hasn't yet worked for Indian, and it sure didn't work for Excelsior Henderson. The real Indian was not a boutique brand. (of course neither was the original Vespa or Harley, but at least they have a continuous heritage. Triumph was able to make it work, because they chose to compete with other bikes, not become a boutique brand. That was the smartest thing they could have done. That, and probably unknown to most, there really is a connection between the old Triumph company and the new one. Before he started the new Hinckley company, with all new motorcycles based on all new designs, John Bloor bought the existing Triumph company in Meridan. For a while BOTH companies ran side by side, establishing a link.


So what does all that have to do with Indian? Number one, if it is going to succeed, Polaris will have to sell it as a real motorcycle, not an overpriced, but empty and meaningless icon, and they will have to develop a new identity for it all over again. Looking at the long string of failures, the Indian name has lost it's magic.


Both engines use a single crankpin design, the Indian is 48 degrees, the Harley is 45 degrees. But it looks like the Indian engine may have a counterbalancer. A counterbalancer can make a big difference. My Vulcan 750 shakes some at idle, but is smooth as silk at highway speeds, and has a 9000 rpm redline. It is a 55 degree single crankpin v-twin with a CB. It is also highly oversquare. The Harley engine is undersquare. Big difference. I wonder what the bore and stroke of the Indian engine are?
__________________
2002 Vulcan 750 (engine out, slowly being disassembled) 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
2012 Zuma 125, 1980 Puch moped

JerryH screwed with this post 03-10-2013 at 05:27 AM
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 05:28 AM   #7
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 29,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Nice to read something by Kevin Cameron, one of my favorite motorcycle writers (along with Peter Egan) I love this engine, the looks, the simple design, the pushrods, and the sound. I certainly hope S&S doesn't have a hand in it, or it will forever bear the stigma of being yet another "Harley clone" engine. The other thing is, what is Polaris going to put it in, and what will it cost. Time and time again Indian has failed because someone tried to sell it as a "boutique" brand, for at least twice what it was worth as an actual motorcycle. Remember that Indian went under 60 years ago. No new company can build a new Indian, no matter how well they do it, and expect to cash in on the original Indian's history and heritage. It hasn't yet worked for Indian, and it sure didn't work for Excelsior Henderson. The real Indian was not a boutique brand. (of course neither was the original Vespa or Harley, but at least they have a continuous heritage. Triumph was able to make it work, because they chose to compete with other bikes, not become a boutique brand. That was the smartest thing they could have done. That, and probably unknown to most, there really is a connection between the old Triumph company and the new one. Before he started the new Hinckley company, with all new motorcycles based on all new designs, John Bloor bought the existing Triumph company in Meridan. For a while BOTH companies ran side by side, establishing a link.


So what does all that have to do with Indian? Number one, if it is going to succeed, Polaris will have to sell it as a real motorcycle, not an overpriced, but empty and meaningless icon, and they will have to develop a new identity for it all over again. Looking at the long string of failures, the Indian name has lost it's magic.


Both engines use a single crankpin design, the Indian is 48 degrees, the Harley is 45 degrees. But it looks like the Indian engine may have a counterbalancer. A counterbalancer can make a big difference. My Vulcan 750 shakes some at idle, but is smooth as silk at highway speeds, and has a 9000 rpm redline. It is a 55 degree single crankpin v-twin with a CB. It is also highly oversquare. The Harley engine is undersquare. Big difference. I wonder what the bore and stroke of the Indian engine are?
Don't take that logic to the Motus thread. They'll flog you.
Dranrab Luap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 06:01 AM   #8
bluesman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Hoegaarden, Belgium
Oddometer: 3,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCC View Post
It's a motor for a cruiser. The function of a cruiser's engine is to propel the bike in an esthetically pleasing manner. A visceral experience, where horsepower is simply one component among many.

Go to a Harley store. The bikes that sell best, look best and conform strictly to the traditional twin styling.

My bikes are Ducati Hyper S and HD Ultra. The engines provide propulsion and character. Not modernity.

I like it.
I think you expanding my statement beyond what I meant
I am not saying it is bad motor (who knows?) and that it have to be modern, but I refer to specific statements about "technology" in that mill. It is so popular word nowadays amongst rather unsuitable application. It's like when this guy from OCC talks on TV that "we have technology". There are nothing exciting technologically. Is it bad? Why? Not necessary at all. It does looks miles better than any other engine of that type I saw - except may be Yamaha big kettle.

We'll see rest of bike. You know sometimes...it goes strange.
Few weeks ago we went to Brussels motor show and in crowd of bikes Victory acres of bodywork made it look terribly exotic and...horribly ugly. Reminding of funeral coach. What's underneath it did not matter anymore. So, somebody have to get it right.

And BTW since when Ducati Hyperstrada S is not modern motor and bike? Because it is twin? Nah, this is as modern both technically and conceptually as it gets :) don't be shy! :)
No comments on HD. Not my cup, not going to start fight :)

In any case - it is not what Indian was, meant to be and bears no relation to original Indian Motorcycles sporty tendencies. It's just a badge.
bluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 06:37 AM   #9
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
Don't take that logic to the Motus thread. They'll flog you.
Yes, they will.

I think it's interesting to see so many after the biggest piece of the American moto-pie. I like the idea of a revived Indian tribute bike with a modern engine.

I got no gripes on this thing. It's a nice looking lump.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 07:05 AM   #10
rider33
Studly Adventurer
 
rider33's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: The Wilds of Western Wisconsin
Oddometer: 968
I have no idea if the bike will be worth a damn but that is one cool engine video:

http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-u...=IND-camp-home
__________________
“many a trip continues long after movement in time and space have ceased”- Steinbeck
rider33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 07:26 AM   #11
tree88
Adventurer
 
tree88's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Killeen TX
Oddometer: 39
all the pertinent specs

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/909/15...es-V-Twin.aspx
tree88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 07:38 AM   #12
M3-SRT8
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Worcester, Mass
Oddometer: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Nice to read something by Kevin Cameron, one of my favorite motorcycle writers (along with Peter Egan) I love this engine, the looks, the simple design, the pushrods, and the sound. I certainly hope S&S doesn't have a hand in it, or it will forever bear the stigma of being yet another "Harley clone" engine. The other thing is, what is Polaris going to put it in, and what will it cost. Time and time again Indian has failed because someone tried to sell it as a "boutique" brand, for at least twice what it was worth as an actual motorcycle. Remember that Indian went under 60 years ago.

So what does all that have to do with Indian? Number one, if it is going to succeed, Polaris will have to sell it as a real motorcycle, not an overpriced, but empty and meaningless icon, and they will have to develop a new identity for it all over again. Looking at the long string of failures, the Indian name has lost it's magic.

I wonder what the bore and stroke of the Indian engine are?
Yes. Indians are WAY overpriced. Also, they need at least TWO models. A Scout and a Chief. Forget the Warrior, as it will conjure up "failure" for anyone who has read Indian's history.

The marque needs to be accessible, price-wise, if it's going to succeed. What does that mean? It means what it's ALWAYS meant, more bang for the buck. And more quality, too. That's how you break into a market, period.

The new Indian 111 is an undersquare motor, BTW.
M3-SRT8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 07:42 AM   #13
Süsser Tod
Studly Adventurer
 
Süsser Tod's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Mexico City, Mexico
Oddometer: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
Don't take that logic to the Motus thread. They'll flog you.
Boutique brand with no history, what could go wrong!?
Süsser Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 08:17 AM   #14
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,044
So how is this menat to occupy a different market niche than offerings from Victory?

Surely, Polaris will try to have some distance between the two brands, but I'm not seeing it, this just sounds like a muscle bike motor. 5500 RPM redline is disappointing.
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #15
larryboy
Paint it black.
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Über Alles,Ca
Oddometer: 13,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
So how is this menat to occupy a different market niche than offerings from Victory?

Surely, Polaris will try to have some distance between the two brands, but I'm not seeing it, this just sounds like a muscle bike motor. 5500 RPM redline is disappointing.

Maybe back to the roots of Indian, racing bikes, fast little bobbers and scramblers with big engines. 111ci in a 500 pound bike, that would be smart, anything else would not be smart.
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014