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Old 03-14-2013, 09:27 PM   #76
JerryH
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Royal Enfield just went to a UCE. But I never actually considered one of those. Just to unreliable. I believe any mid '60s bike was probably more reliable than a brand new Enfield, including British bikes. It still has looks and some character, but not reliable enough to be a practical bike.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:35 AM   #77
ph0rk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
......almost everything not Harley has been unit construction for 40 years.
not the boxer twins, but little about those motors are about function before form (and I own one).


I think the 111 inch motor in a ~500 lb retro standard with 29-30 inch seat height would be effing badass. If there was a chance in hell I could order one with ABS I'd be quite interested.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:31 AM   #78
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Take this concept, update without gaining too much weight or cloning Harley and price it at about 15k
and I think they'd do just fine. The new engine gives me hope that's just where they are headed too:
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:34 AM   #79
kraven
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I like that. Sort of a stately and modern cruiser for a gentleman or lady with classic appeal.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:39 AM   #80
chiefrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
not the boxer twins, but little about those motors are about function before form (and I own one).


I think the 111 inch motor in a ~500 lb retro standard with 29-30 inch seat height would be effing badass. If there was a chance in hell I could order one with ABS I'd be quite interested.
I would be damned surprised if the new Indians DIDN'T come standard with ABS.

This will likely be a totally modern motorcycle by the way of electronics and safety features. Unlike the California Motorcycle Company, which procured the Indian name some years back and started bolting valenced fenders to their S&S powered boutique chopperized customs, Polaris has the engineering acumen and money to create a product that competes on a level on and well beyond the retro thing.

Like the old Scout motor looked like a smaller version of the old Chief motor, I hope that they build a much lighter, rev-happy midweight along the same aesthetic lines. However good looking, the Sportster is overweight, poor handling, crudely suspended and slow in stock form. If done right, a new Scout would bring back the rivalry between the two brands like it was in the 1930's, where if you wanted a sporty twin, you'd buy a Scout, or if you wanted something more *ahem* utilitarian/agricultural, you'd buy a WL.





(I'd love to have either in my garage, by the way.)

And I know you can't truly compare the market from 70 to 80 years ago to now, but dropping the Scout from the Indian showrooms was a huge mistake from the Springfield bunch. It was their bread-and-butter bike, and, like how the Sportster serves as a "trainer" bike for customers who will someday pony up to a big twin, a light and snappy Scout to accompany the Thunder Stroke could be the ticket in to the new Indian experience.

I hope somebody at Polaris/Indian is monitoring the chatter.

Tom in Salem
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:21 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefrider View Post
* snip *

Like the old Scout motor looked like a smaller version of the old Chief motor, I hope that they build a much lighter, rev-happy midweight along the same aesthetic lines.

* snip *

a light and snappy Scout to accompany the Thunder Stroke could be the ticket in to the new Indian experience.

I hope somebody at Polaris/Indian is monitoring the chatter.

Tom in Salem

Personally I hope Indian make a successful comeback.

Something that I would actually like to see is someone take up where honda's stillborn MRV1000 left off ... a latter day Vincent.








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Old 03-15-2013, 09:30 AM   #82
M3-SRT8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefrider View Post
If done right, a new Scout would bring back the rivalry between the two brands like it was in the 1930's, where if you wanted a sporty twin, you'd buy a Scout, or if you wanted something more *ahem* utilitarian/agricultural, you'd buy a WL.

I hope somebody at Polaris/Indian is monitoring the chatter.

Tom in Salem
Yes. If a Scout returned to the fold, it would naturally be compared to the Sportster. Motorcycle Reviewers the world over would have a field day, setting up their modern comparisons/tests by conjuring up past glories and competitions between H-D and Indian, etc etc, comparing their modern counterparts, and then they'd pick a winner.

...and, if it was clearly the Indian Scout, they would be stumbling over each other to be the first to report it. I enphasize the word 'clearly', because when you take on The Champ, you clearly have to beat him. A TKO wouldn't cut it here.

The result of such a victory over H-D? The reviewers would go on to say that the Harley riders would continue to do so because, um, they are Harley riders and are blind to the bike's shortcomings.

But, the newcomers would buy the Indian, just to tweak the old fogies noses.

Show me where it's written that Harley-Davidson dominates the cruiser market in perpetuity.

But I am getting waaaay ahead of myself here. We are light years away from such a comparison.

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Old 03-15-2013, 09:44 AM   #83
larryboy
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
I think the 111 inch motor in a ~500 lb retro standard with 29-30 inch seat height would be effing badass. If there was a chance in hell I could order one with ABS I'd be quite interested.

If you could melt Roland Sands and Jesse Rooke into one person, they could design what a new Indian should be. Well suspended, over braked and as light as possible little hot rods.

500 pounds is a nice number, but that's extremely hard to do...look at the XR1200, 600 pounds and it looks pretty bare bones to me.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:00 AM   #84
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500 pounds is a nice number, but that's extremely hard to do...look at the XR1200, 600 pounds and it looks pretty bare bones to me.
Why is it hard to do? With today's modern production techniques and lightweight steel, etc, I could see @ 500 pounds without much fuss.

Hell, my 2006 Ducati Monster S2R weighs @ 400 lbs, wet.

Those early model 101 Scouts and Sport Scouts were pretty light. Stripped for racing they came in at @ 300lbs.

'Tribute' bikes need not be heavy. The 2013 Honda cb1100 I have on order (w/ ABS)weighs in at 545lbs, wet.

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Old 03-15-2013, 10:04 AM   #85
larryboy
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Why is it hard to do?

When I look at that 111 lump I see 300 pounds sitting there and no bike.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:09 AM   #86
M3-SRT8
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When I look at that 111 lump I see 300 pounds sitting there and no bike.
Hoooo...you maybe right!

And, a smaller "Scout" engine wouldn't weigh much less.

"Difficult...not impossible." *

* Rocco Lampone, "The Godfather Part 2"

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Old 03-15-2013, 11:05 AM   #87
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Any new american motorcycle is great. I own a good ol harley as well as a newer BMW. Twins are my favorite thing to ride and I welcome this new three cam motor. Harley needs the competition from Victory and Indian IMHO. I think its got some S&S influence 3 cams, and it looks like a Victory crank. Good looking pushrod v-twin motorcycle engine. I hope they put it in a softail stripped down model that's affordable so I will want to buy one!!
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:17 AM   #88
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All I can think of is Henry Ford's famous quote:

"You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do."




...and to quote Nike:

"Just Do It."
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:20 AM   #89
r60man
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Harley needs Competetion

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokinrider View Post
Any new american motorcycle is great. I own a good ol harley as well as a newer BMW. Twins are my favorite thing to ride and I welcome this new three cam motor. Harley needs the competition from Victory and Indian IMHO. I think its got some S&S influence 3 cams, and it looks like a Victory crank. Good looking pushrod v-twin motorcycle engine. I hope they put it in a softail stripped down model that's affordable so I will want to buy one!!
Absolutely correct. My grandfather was a factory racer for Indian in the 20s and 30s. He won multiple National Championships and is in the Motorcycle Hall of Fame. In those "glory years" Harley and Indian pushed each other mercilessly. Each innovation was met and matched, and things progressed very quickly. Things slowed after WWII and once Indian finally died Harley became fat and lazy. A great book on the subject is The Harley-Davidson and Indian War by Allan Girdller. Here is an advertising picture of my grandfather on one of his Scouts:
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:33 AM   #90
M3-SRT8
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A great book on the subject is The Harley-Davidson and Indian War by Allan Girdller.
Just finished re-reading it...
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