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Old 01-08-2013, 09:51 AM   #3511
fastdadio
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I was lurking over on the XR650L thread, and read an intresting opinion from CycleWizard concerning top end oil starvation. While this is a Honda, I think the theroy is generic. He seems to think long term, average rpm's may be a contributing factor. Short shifting, long stop lights and just general lugging the motor along. Oil pump flow volume is directly proportional to rpm's. I for one, was a habitual short shifter until I read this. I now keep the R's up a little higher, especially when just biffin along sniffing the roses. Weather or not this is a problem for the LC4, can't really say. One thing I know for sure though is that it can't hurt. So quit nursing the bitch, and keep the motor in it's happy place.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:08 PM   #3512
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnrobertson View Post
Without opening up a LARGE can of worms I think the wear is oil or usage dependant?
.
Mine's run a variety of oils, I just get a decent quality, moto-specific synth or semi synth, currently Rock Oil something cos it's what the shop has. I have also run Motorex before it got stoopid expensive & ran Motul for quite a while. I don't think it's made much of a difference. (I'm sure someone that enforces internet standards will be around to slap me for that statement shortly )

My usage is quite varied, the odd commute, some long highway, some dirt, some gravel. It gets a good thrashing fairly often but not too much in the way of sustained high revs. It has done a few less revs in the 2nd half of it's life though as the missus started riding & I've spent a fair portion of time at 250 pace.

Fastdadio, aren't the Hondas a pressure fed plain bearing cam? A bit different to the LC4 but more revs = more oil still applies I spose.

Cheers
Clint
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:37 PM   #3513
Low594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
Mine's run a variety of oils, I just get a decent quality, moto-specific synth or semi synth, currently Rock Oil something cos it's what the shop has. I have also run Motorex before it got stoopid expensive & ran Motul for quite a while. I don't think it's made much of a difference. (I'm sure someone that enforces internet standards will be around to slap me for that statement shortly )

My usage is quite varied, the odd commute, some long highway, some dirt, some gravel. It gets a good thrashing fairly often but not too much in the way of sustained high revs. It has done a few less revs in the 2nd half of it's life though as the missus started riding & I've spent a fair portion of time at 250 pace.

Fastdadio, aren't the Hondas a pressure fed plain bearing cam? A bit different to the LC4 but more revs = more oil still applies I spose.

Cheers
Clint
WTF!?! How is it Rock Oil is easily available in New Zealand, when its from here in the SF bay Area! Funny thing is, my uncle went to school with the boys who started the company! I can only find it once in a blue moon!
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:46 PM   #3514
bmwktmbill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastdadio View Post
I was lurking over on the XR650L thread, and read an intresting opinion from CycleWizard concerning top end oil starvation. While this is a Honda, I think the theroy is generic. He seems to think long term, average rpm's may be a contributing factor. Short shifting, long stop lights and just general lugging the motor along. Oil pump flow volume is directly proportional to rpm's. I for one, was a habitual short shifter until I read this. I now keep the R's up a little higher, especially when just biffin along sniffing the roses. Weather or not this is a problem for the LC4, can't really say. One thing I know for sure though is that it can't hurt. So quit nursing the bitch, and keep the motor in it's happy place.
I totally agree, as a short shifter myself and a temp gauge watcher you have to keep the water circulating and the oil pumping...4500 rpm does it for my aging ride but ripping through the gears to get there in 5th really helps the way my engine runs daily.

The LC 4 engine is a willing performer, a little show off.

With a blown out Comp pipe it makes a lovely sound when the heavy hand sneaks out.
7000 rpm is very easy with stock gearing or 17/42T.
Doesn't seem to hurt a bit.

Might have to change my bi-line below.

bill
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:12 AM   #3515
hillbilly enduro
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Rocker roller evolution???

As i read about the wear out of the rocker roller pins (again), I started wondering...

Has anyone thought about, when replacing the rollers, Just throw the stock pins in the scrap bin, and replace with hardened pins instead? If the pins has an equal measure, hardened pins is easy to get. It gets a bit more tricky if not.

I would like to try this, but I'm a bit afraid of what might happen. It could bring the rebuild interval past the 100.000 km...
But on the other hand it might just fuck up the needles or rollers instead. Or simply seize up right away...

Any thoughts about this?
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:46 AM   #3516
mgorman
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I guess it would depend on how much damage was done to the inside of the roller and the shaft the needles run on. I know in loose bearing bicycle wheels, the races where the bearings run usually start to pit 1st then take the balls with them. Like te steering heads where the rollers start to beat the detents into the races giving you a notchy feeling at the steering stem.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:44 AM   #3517
Boon Booni
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Aren't all roller/ball bearing surfaces/races hardened?
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:08 AM   #3518
liferider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
I totally agree, as a short shifter myself and a temp gauge watcher you have to keep the water circulating and the oil pumping...4500 rpm does it for my aging ride but ripping through the gears to get there in 5th really helps the way my engine runs daily.

The LC 4 engine is a willing performer, a little show off.

With a blown out Comp pipe it makes a lovely sound when the heavy hand sneaks out.
7000 rpm is very easy with stock gearing or 17/42T.
Doesn't seem to hurt a bit.

Might have to change my bi-line below.

bill
According to your comments, guys, driving the mighty 640 I was a short shifter in the city, and a long shifter offroad and on paved routes.
When I had no option but to drive +300kms on tarmac, I took all she could give, that is 6.5/7k rpm. consistently all the time. I was a bit concerned about this, so I asked KTM Chile, where they told me the LC4 was not designed to maintain those revs for long periods of time, but that doesn't mean it will brake though. The read was "it can undertake it, better if you don't force it all the time".

For my non-specialist sense of mechanics, I think she reached the 50.000km in good shape (and with no external intervention).

Anyway, I think sometime is just a good/bad luck issue (although one have to help it )

.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:30 AM   #3519
Grreatdog
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The short shifting thing is good news to me. Since I tend to run mine like an MX bike the top end should last forever.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:38 AM   #3520
fastdadio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
The short shifting thing is good news to me. Since I tend to run mine like an MX bike the top end should last forever.
OK guys, somehow, I think the happy place is somewhere in between granny mode and continous bouncing off the rev limiter.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #3521
hillbilly enduro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgorman View Post
I guess it would depend on how much damage was done to the inside of the roller and the shaft the needles run on. I know in loose bearing bicycle wheels, the races where the bearings run usually start to pit 1st then take the balls with them. Like te steering heads where the rollers start to beat the detents into the races giving you a notchy feeling at the steering stem.
I should probably explain better... I didn't intend to re use the old rollers, when failure occurs. I'd buy a new set/s and then just reinstall with a hardened pin instead of the KTM pin. I'm aware that the KTM pins are also hardened. But as it seems that it's always the pins and not eg. the rollers that's wearing out, then maybe the pins should have been harder.

Hope this makes sense...

Comparison with bicycle bearings is kind of useless, as those races is just a piece of pressed sheet metal, and not hardened...

But your comparing to steering head bearings maybe is correct, since the load on the rocker rollers isn't constant either...
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:16 PM   #3522
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbilly enduro View Post
I should probably explain better... I didn't intend to re use the old rollers, when failure occurs. I'd buy a new set/s and then just reinstall with a hardened pin instead of the KTM pin. I'm aware that the KTM pins are also hardened. But as it seems that it's always the pins and not eg. the rollers that's wearing out, then maybe the pins should have been harder.

Hope this makes sense...

Comparison with bicycle bearings is kind of useless, as those races is just a piece of pressed sheet metal, and not hardened...

But your comparing to steering head bearings maybe is correct, since the load on the rocker rollers isn't constant either...
The KTM roller axle pins seem to be quite soft, so installing a harder unit may work to extend the life somewhat...

Replacing the roller at every 25,000 miles is not that big of issue for me as I usually have the rocker cover off at that mileage anyways to rebuild the waterpump...
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:40 PM   #3523
Mo-Tarded
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlh62c View Post
Was the inline fuel filter present in the steel line of the carb? daryl
Katrina has developed a leak when the gas is "On". Also have a slight hesitation mid-range (feels like a fuel starvation). So I'm going in... (Again).

I do not see this screen (referenced above) anywhere... ...but I'm part blind so may not know where I am looking.

Does someone have a better exploded view of the BeaST carburetor than the one below ?

http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Mikun...retor_C685.cfm

Thanks in advance... - Robert
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:24 PM   #3524
Young-Gun
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Does this help?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo-Tarded View Post
Katrina has developed a leak when the gas is "On". Also have a slight hesitation mid-range (feels like a fuel starvation). So I'm going in... (Again).

I do not see this screen (referenced above) anywhere... ...but I'm part blind so may not know where I am looking.

Does someone have a better exploded view of the BeaST carburetor than the one below ?

http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Mikun...retor_C685.cfm

Thanks in advance... - Robert
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:01 PM   #3525
Mo-Tarded
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YG-640 Yes ! Alot ! ...however I still do not see a screen/filter on the gas intake.

I guess I'll go in eyes-wide-open. I'll check the tank filter in the process as well.

Fun fun fun... Thanks !
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