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Old 02-22-2013, 06:31 PM   #3646
DaddyBigDaddy
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Came with

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droptarotter View Post
BigDaddy;
Where did you get the tank guards??

Cheers
Came with the 1998 620 Adv I recently bought

No idea who makes em but perfect fit, I only bored out the left petcock access hole that was way too small...used a doorknob drill bit...perfect size now and painted orange to match tank

PS rust oleum enamel in safety orange is a perfect match!
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:27 AM   #3647
Boon Booni
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The front end of my 2002 640 ADV has an unacceptable amount of stiction (2 bushing "48" USD). I compared mine to a friends 950 and his front end is soft a supple when pumping the bars.

When I picked the bike up from the PO last fall the front would bind up pretty bad after 2 pumps. I replaced the fork oil and verified that the forks were installed parallel and equidistant all the way down. They aren't twisted or anything in the triples.

The fork oil helped a bit, but it still stictions up more than I would like when I pump them. I think it might be the seals as I could feel a little bit of stiction even when pumping the forks against the ground while off the bike. I've verified with v-blocks and a dial caliper that the fork tubes are strait as an arrow, and everything moved very nicely before the seals were installed. (I re-used the seals)

Looking at Mun's web site they show the fork seals for my bike as NLA. I seem to remember reading a write up of various seal manufacturers but can't seem to find it now. Anyone have a link to that write up, or a recommendation for the "slickest" fork seals?

Thanks..



Oh and...



...my first real 30 miles on the bike.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:31 PM   #3648
bmwktmbill
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Boon,
A couple of things.

What torque did you use on the triple clamps?

The front axle.
Did you use the procedure outlined in the owners manual to reinstall the wheel.

Did you clean out the tunnels on the bottom of the fork legsand polish the axle so it will slide easily and the forks can find center after you pump them.(don't oil the axle slide area).

bill
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:48 PM   #3649
DaddyBigDaddy
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Heat gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley959 View Post
Silicone is probably your best option, you definitely don't want a bunch of crap getting down in between the guard and the tank.

It's a pretty permanent option though, so keep that in mind. I just peeled mine off to have a fresh wrap of carbon and some shiny clear added to them, and removing the old silicone from the tank took some serious effort. Even after a few hours with a razor and some turpentine, there's still a film that I'm not sure I can remove.
Heat gun
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:56 PM   #3650
slackmeyer
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I thought the 02s had 43mm forks? SKF seals are the best for the wp forks, at least that's current wisdom. I know they're available for the 48mm MXMA, not sure about the 43s. 43mm USD WP forks are common though, I think aftermarket places like Moose and Synergy seals will be selling seal/bushing kits.

So when you have the forks out and assembled except without the top cap screwed into the fork outer leg, the outer/inner don't slide smoothly?
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:21 AM   #3651
Hipster
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In the suspension thread over at ktmtalk one respected suspension builder sands the fork tubes on his personal bike with 240 grit sand paper (on a lathe) to reduce stiction. He said for customers bikes he'll use 400 or 600 grit because they'll complain about the appearance of scratched fork tubes.

It seems counter intuitive but, he says it similar to honing a cylinder bore where the scratches retain a film of oil, thus reducing friction.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:06 AM   #3652
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
Boon,
A couple of things.

What torque did you use on the triple clamps?

The front axle.
Did you use the procedure outlined in the owners manual to reinstall the wheel.

Did you clean out the tunnels on the bottom of the fork legsand polish the axle so it will slide easily and the forks can find center after you pump them.(don't oil the axle slide area).

bill
Read up on Creepers(?) fork thread where he says to tighten the lower pinch bolts just finger tight, so not much torque. I've also experimented with having them completely loose and it makes no difference.

Top triples are torqued to what's in the owners manual.



Right fork is free to slide on the axle. With the right side axle pinch bolts loose I can deflect the fork a few mm along the axle and tapping the bottom of the fork will bring the fork back to center from deflected. It doesn't make any difference to the stiction if I leave the bolts loose or snug them up while pumping the forks. That said, I did not clean the pinch bolt tunnels of either fork.




Quote:
Originally Posted by slackmeyer View Post
I thought the 02s had 43mm forks? SKF seals are the best for the wp forks, at least that's current wisdom. I know they're available for the 48mm MXMA, not sure about the 43s. 43mm USD WP forks are common though, I think aftermarket places like Moose and Synergy seals will be selling seal/bushing kits.

So when you have the forks out and assembled except without the top cap screwed into the fork outer leg, the outer/inner don't slide smoothly?
Pretty sure they're 48mm. Measured them with a caliper and 48mm is listed in the parts fiche's that I've looked at. I didn't look at what type of seals they were when they were out. I should have, but thought the stiction was from the 2 year old oil in my forks.

When I dropped the tubes into the sliders everything moved like butter along the full stroke of the fork. Smooth and silky. I remember there being a little stiction once I installed the seals, but before installing the spring and top cap. I didn't think anything of it at the time. I did put some grease between the two lips of the fork seals before driving them into place.

Once everything was assembled and filled with oil, I compressed the forks against the ground with my weight, and could detect a little resistance from the seals but it seemed acceptable. Maybe it's the combined stiction of both forks that I didn't take into account.

The seal review I remember reading listed 5-6 different manufacturers and which ones were notorious for stiction, which ones typically started leaking the quickest etc. I remember Moose was considered low quality and that OEM were well regarded but beyond that I'm a blank..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipster View Post
In the suspension thread over at ktmtalk one respected suspension builder sands the fork tubes on his personal bike with 240 grit sand paper (on a lathe) to reduce stiction. He said for customers bikes he'll use 400 or 600 grit because they'll complain about the appearance of scratched fork tubes.

It seems counter intuitive but, he says it similar to honing a cylinder bore where the scratches retain a film of oil, thus reducing friction.
That makes sense to me. Not only could the scoring help hold some oil, it might break the seals in faster as well.

I was hoping the the 200 miles I did this weekend would help loosen them up some, but that didn't happen.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:02 AM   #3653
Hurley959
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It doesn't sound like seals to me if they're moving freely with the caps off. Either they're binding due to something being bent, or there's an internal issue.

If the oil wasn't changed with any regularity it's possible that you have a valve that is gummed up and not flowing like it should. I'd tear them down completely and inspect for issues. These things are pretty easy to work on, just a little messy. Re-assemble, set your air gap, reset your clickers to stock settings and go from there.

These forks are known for the rebound valve getting funky and losing full range of adjustment, so make sure to clean them while you're in there.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:55 AM   #3654
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurley959 View Post
It doesn't sound like seals to me if they're moving freely with the caps off. Either they're binding due to something being bent, or there's an internal issue.

If the oil wasn't changed with any regularity it's possible that you have a valve that is gummed up and not flowing like it should. I'd tear them down completely and inspect for issues. These things are pretty easy to work on, just a little messy. Re-assemble, set your air gap, reset your clickers to stock settings and go from there.

These forks are known for the rebound valve getting funky and losing full range of adjustment, so make sure to clean them while you're in there.
They were smooth with the caps off, but before I drove the seals in. I don't remember what they were like with the caps off but seals in. (I don't think I checked as I was just moving along with the rebuild.)

I did rebuild the forks down to the shim stacks (disassembled the stacks to clean the valves). I found one of the rebound valves gummed up, the other looked perfect.
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Where the fuck...
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:01 AM   #3655
Droptarotter
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I added a little more orange to my 640 today. A new front fender and some fork guards off of an 85SX.....





Cheers
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:24 AM   #3656
bmwktmbill
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Boon Booni,
I'd start a separate thread on this one.

You have a problem and it has a solution.
Something isn't right.

I think you need to pull the legs off and dump the oil into something clean and then work both legs without the springs or oil.
bill
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'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
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The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:02 AM   #3657
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
Boon Booni,
I'd start a separate thread on this one.

You have a problem and it has a solution.
Something isn't right.

I think you need to pull the legs off and dump the oil into something clean and then work both legs without the springs or oil.
bill
Yeah..

Talked with Neil at Hitchcock Industries last night. He actually re-valved my forks 2 years ago for the PO, also installed OEM KTM seals at that time. Neil doesn't think changing the seals out would make that big of difference. He thinks if my axle is strait, the bottom triples aren't too tight, the forks are parallel in both x & y planes and that I'm positive the axle clamp on the right fork is aligning correctly that it's more than likely the bushings. When he rebuilt the forks 2 years ago he didn't replace the bushings, and several thousand miles and lots of offroad could easily have done the bushings in. He gave me some specs to check for tolerance. I'll pull the forks in the next few weeks and check the bushings, probably install new ones no matter what and see what happens.

I'll try to remember to take some photos for a refresher on the shade tree mechanic fork re-build.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:02 PM   #3658
DesignerRider
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Eek Why did a woodruff key come out with my oil??!!

Yes, sorry to change the subject, but just wondering what to do now. I drained the oil from my 620 lc4 and a woodruff key came out on the magnetic drain plug.

From my michofiche I saw three keys in the bottom end one on the flywheel side and two on the clutch side (one of which is smaller than the other). This appears to be a larger key and so could be from either side.

Should I tear the thing apart or just ride and hope nothing spins?

I hate it when extra stuff comes out with the oil!
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:15 PM   #3659
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignerRider View Post
Yes, sorry to change the subject, but just wondering what to do now. I drained the oil from my 620 lc4 and a woodruff key came out on the magnetic drain plug.

From my michofiche I saw three keys in the bottom end – one on the flywheel side and two on the clutch side (one of which is smaller than the other). This appears to be a larger key and so could be from either side.

Should I tear the thing apart or just ride and hope nothing spins?

I hate it when extra stuff comes out with the oil!
Hate that. I don't see how a woodruff key could come out while the motor is assembled. They can be pushed out of place during assembly though.

What do you know about the bike? How long have you had it? How many miles since the last rebuild?
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:31 PM   #3660
DesignerRider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Hate that. I don't see how a woodruff key could come out while the motor is assembled. They can be pushed out of place during assembly though.

What do you know about the bike? How long have you had it? How many miles since the last rebuild?
Thanks for the reply. It has roughly 25k on the engine, but what I do know is that about two years ago the engine was torn down to replace a main bearing that was going bad. Sort of a fluke failure, but that's another story. The work was done by a very good KTM shop in SoCal.

Do you think it's possible that key has been loose in there for two years of riding? You're right, I don't see how it could come out after being installed.
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