Tailgating

[KLRKowboy]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

Don't make me get von baden on yer ass..............

[windmill]

Originally Posted by randyo

there is one drawback to not tailgating

when you leave safe separation, you get more idiots that think they have time to turn left in front of you

Problem with that is if the vehicle in front is hiding the rider they may also assume the space is clear.

[Griffin44]

Originally Posted by Wraith Rider

@Mat
Your link is absolutely not related to tailgating. It's about shortened vision and maybe snowy weather. Also I don't "think" that there's enough space for me, I KNOW it. It's not really a difficult equation.

First, 2s is NOT given as a minimum. Second, since the stopping distance of the guy in front of me is ~130ft as well, my stopping distance isn't a problem and safety distance is only for compensating reaction time. Third, the 1s reaction time includes weight transfer. (Of course one has to practice braking.)
So I'm standing still directly behind the car, no problem. (And of course as mayday said, this would only be important if the one in front of you emergency brakes without a reason.)

I believe your calculations are wrong. We teach our professional emergency drivers an absolute minimum of 2 seconds following distance + differential in braking capacity of a heavy vehicle.

Our rationale for that is several points:

1. it is accepted by every professional driver training organization we know about as standard
2. reaction time alone is close to one full second for a fully aware, high functioning human. That's just to the point that brakes are beginning to be applied.
3. If that one second has eaten up your total following distance, it means you're about to eat bumper because you're just beginning to brake and they've been braking for one full second and are therefore travelling far slower than you are. It doesn't matter how good your reactions are or how good your brakes are, you're into their bumper.

You seem to be presuming that your reaction time will be the same as the reaction time of the vehicle in front of you. That is not correct. You're reaction time starts when they initiate an action - i.e. you see them braking. That is, unless you are reacting to whatever made them want to brake at the same time that they brake. That's a serious stretch and not something to depend on. How are you gonna know when his girlfriend bit him?

I strive for at least 2 seconds. I too often get well within that and am then dependent on seeing and reacting to anything that might cause that vehicle to brake. A very bad position to be in.

By far the most dangerous vehicle on the road is the one in front of you - whether oncoming or the one you're following.

[Wraith Rider]

Originally Posted by randyo

not when what stopped the vehicle in front of you was a head on collision or an object that fell out of the vehicle in front of him or a moose, cow or bison wondered into the road. Or someone backed out of a driveway in front of the car in front of you

If it transports something you can't drive over, keep your distance. In all the other cases, keep your eyes open. No problem there.

Originally Posted by Griffin44

I believe your calculations are wrong.

Luckily, physics isn't about believing, so your believings are wrong and my calculations are right.

Originally Posted by Griffin44

reaction time alone is close to one full second for a fully aware, high functioning human

Wrong. Reaction time alone is 300ms average, with some individuals under 200ms.

Originally Posted by Griffin44

That's just to the point that brakes are beginning to be applied.

Wrong. We have to add 300...500ms for moving the foot/fingers from throttle to brake.

Originally Posted by Griffin44

If that one second has eaten up your total following distance, it means you're about to eat bumper because you're just beginning to brake and they've been braking for one full second and are therefore travelling far slower than you are.

Wrong. There are another ~200ms to build up full braking power, so it's about 1s with a tiny bit of braking that's assumed to be "not braking" as a safety margin and after that it's full braking. The one in front of you was braking for one full second and that's the reason why you stay one second behind to be able to stop right behind him.

Originally Posted by Griffin44

It doesn't matter how good your reactions are or how good your brakes are

Wrong. Better reactions and better brakes allow for a shorter safety distance.

Originally Posted by Griffin44

You're reaction time starts when they initiate an action

Generally wrong, but that is what I assume for the sake of the discussion.

Originally Posted by Griffin44

I strive for at least 2 seconds. I too often get well within that and am then dependent on seeing and reacting to anything that might cause that vehicle to brake. A very bad position to be in.

Since that (seeing and reacting to anything any other could be caused by to do something) is my regular state, this position is quite comfortable.

[randyo]

Originally Posted by Wraith Rider

If it transports something you can't drive over, keep your distance. In all the other cases, keep your eyes open. No problem there.



Luckily, physics isn't about believing, so your believings are wrong and my calculations are right.



Wrong. Reaction time alone is 300ms average, with some individuals under 200ms.



Wrong. We have to add 300...500ms for moving the foot/fingers from throttle to brake.



Wrong. There are another ~200ms to build up full braking power, so it's about 1s with a tiny bit of braking that's assumed to be "not braking" as a safety margin and after that it's full braking. The one in front of you was braking for one full second and that's the reason why you stay one second behind to be able to stop right behind him.



Wrong. Better reactions and better brakes allow for a shorter safety distance.



Generally wrong, but that is what I assume for the sake of the discussion.



Since that (seeing and reacting to anything any other could be caused by to do something) is my regular state, this position is quite comfortable.

we got it, your superhuman

[randyo]

http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic...cond-rule.html

[Griffin44]

Originally Posted by Wraith Rider

Luckily, physics isn't about believing, so your believings are wrong and my calculations are right.


.

No. I'm just not a dick and expressed it in a polite way.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by rgoers

I probably would have pulled over in front of him, then roosted a windshield-full of rocks at him as I took off. (Street legal knobbies are good for more than just riding dirt...) Or I might have shot him... Neither would have turned out as well as what you did. I applaud you!

What did you have for dinner that made it SO worth ignoring the idiot? I may want the recipe...

Having a SO worth going home to will often moderate a person's actions!

Jim

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by KLRKowboy

Pot, have you met Kettle?

But some people ARE morons! It is not a personal attack, but a statement of fact!

Jim

[DAKEZ]

Originally Posted by randyo

we got it, your superhuman

** You're ** [klay]

[bumbeen]

Originally Posted by Wraith Rider

If it transports something you can't drive over, keep your distance. In all the other cases, keep your eyes open. No problem there.



Luckily, physics isn't about believing, so your believings are wrong and my calculations are right.



Wrong. Reaction time alone is 300ms average, with some individuals under 200ms.



Wrong. We have to add 300...500ms for moving the foot/fingers from throttle to brake.



Wrong. There are another ~200ms to build up full braking power, so it's about 1s with a tiny bit of braking that's assumed to be "not braking" as a safety margin and after that it's full braking. The one in front of you was braking for one full second and that's the reason why you stay one second behind to be able to stop right behind him.



Wrong. Better reactions and better brakes allow for a shorter safety distance.



Generally wrong, but that is what I assume for the sake of the discussion.



Since that (seeing and reacting to anything any other could be caused by to do something) is my regular state, this position is quite comfortable.

So you won't mind testing this out then? You in the southeast?

[D_A]

Originally Posted by Wraith Rider

Wrong. There are another ~200ms to build up full braking power, so it's about 1s with a tiny bit of braking that's assumed to be "not braking" as a safety margin and after that it's full braking. The one in front of you was braking for one full second and that's the reason why you stay one second behind to be able to stop right behind him.

Not one single part of your argument holds water. You are repeatedly using peak reaction times for simple predefined tasks and applying them to complex decision based tasked. That is not "physics", it is the misapplication of data.

The statement quoted above is the most telling. By your own admission, you have already lost that first second where the vehicle in front has been braking before you have started braking yourself. At your declared one second gap you are already dead before you, with your claimed superhuman reflexes, have started to brake.

If this is genuinely how you ride then you'd better make peace with whatever deity amuses you, because you'll be finding out for sure if they exist sooner rather than later.

[bumbeen]

To be fair the car doesn't stop in one second so you won't hit them in the first second, but you will be too far behind to catch up with their braking and will hit them between the 2nd and third second of braking time

[Mat]

Originally Posted by randyo

http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic...cond-rule.html

That is only valid for us normal mortal tossers.

When the offending drivers on these police video reality shows on German tv get stopped, they always argue that they were just better than others because of "physics", or their superior reaction times (which in turn get negated by non-made up physics - see D_A'a post for explanations - but no mind).

Now I know where that is coming from

One thing is true though: German police only start fining when it is less than 1s. On the other hand, fines and danger are not known to be perfectly correlated, are they.

Anyways, as long as you leave some distance to motorbikes it is fine with me. Tailgating is not a black-and-white business, there are degrees of it. Depends on the situation and who you are following.

[randyo]

Wraith best hope that the person behind him is as superhuman as he is or he will be rear ended