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Old 05-21-2014, 08:20 AM   #511
dratom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dratom View Post
...
Given that I'm close with 172/175 and a 45 pilot, I'm thinking 178/180 with 42. But that contradicts your above. Can a 1/2 step in mains compensate for the pilot drop?
...
Will post back after downsizing pilots.
Update:
Mains up to 178/180 (was 172/175)
Pilots down to 42 (were 45)
Floats at 5.0mm (unchanged)
IMS at 2 turns (14AFR @ idle) (was 0 turns)
FP needle at 4th clip (unchanged)

Test ride shows rich at low rpm and lean to good at high rpm. This is at all throttle openings.
I lack the ability to test mains by WFO to top speed, so I use the rear brake and 2nd gear holding speed roughly constant. AFRs around mid 13s using this method, so I think mains are close enough to proceed.
WFO at mid revs is rich (~12) and off the scale rich (<10) at low revs.
Constant throttle cruise is rich until upper mid. Eg. 3rd gear @ 70km/h = AFR 12. With previous jetting it was 11, so we're improving.
AFRs observed during roll ons are also rich in the 11-12 range. (previously they were close to correct at 12-13)

So where to now? I figure drop the needle a notch would probably improve most things - but it's likely to worsen high rpm part-throttle behaviour which has been an issue with every jetting combination I have tried that doesn't involve a high needle.

I am tempted to drop the stock needles in as Mousitsas suggested, though they'll likely want smaller mains. I believe they are leaner at the bottom end, is this correct?

Thoughts?
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:04 AM   #512
mousitsas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dratom View Post
I am tempted to drop the stock needles in as Mousitsas suggested, though they'll likely want smaller mains. I believe they are leaner at the bottom end, is this correct?
Thoughts?
If I remember well, they give very similar AFR at small throttles for same needle position.
I think the rich problems at the low end start because of the needles on the 4th slot, in my case there was nothing I could do to fix that, other than move them up to 3rd and I still have to lean out the floats a bit. All that with 42 pilots.

I would suggest to try next FP needles at 3rd and probably up the mains to 180/182,
or stock needles at 3rd with 172/175 mains .
That is assuming that your current mains at 178/180 are indeed right for the FP needles at 4th. Here, I will respectfully disagree they are, since my bike clearly stalls at sea level with open akras and I doubt that two bikes can be so different! But there is always the case I am wrong!

I also wonder whether at that point leaner airjets would also work (I think H2W suggests 65 idle air jets instead of the stock 50) but have never tried them.

mousitsas screwed with this post 05-21-2014 at 09:12 AM
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Old 05-21-2014, 01:22 PM   #513
ManuC
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Thanks guys very interesting for the moment I have

Mains 175/178
Pilots back to 42
Needels FP at 4
Screws idel 2
Float 3.5 mm

With the 42 the idle is more stable and the bike is smooth but stronger.
Thortlle is very strong from low to mid range but but in high rpm it doens't go so quick then with the 165/168 ..learn
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Old 06-07-2014, 11:32 PM   #514
iluha_adv
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Flat at 7500-8200 rpms WOT

Good day
Have SW filter, jetting is 165f/168r, FP needles in 3rd clip, float at 4mm, 42 pilot jets (45 - too rich), mixture screws about 1-1.5 turns (flex jets).
Bike strong from the bottom, but has a flat spot at last gears between 7500-8200 rpms (WOT), from 8200-10000 strong again. Really I can't understand what is it lean or rich. The speed is too high at this RPMs at high gears and roads are too bad, so I can't pay enough attention to engine.
My thought is to try to rise needles first, to make the transition richer.
What do you think my friends?

Ambient temperature is 25-30 C, sea level.
2-1 exhaust setup with Acra, db-killer out.

iluha_adv screwed with this post 06-07-2014 at 11:50 PM
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:45 AM   #515
mousitsas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluha_adv View Post
Good day
Have SW filter, jetting is 165f/168r, FP needles in 3rd clip, float at 4mm, 42 pilot jets (45 - too rich), mixture screws about 1-1.5 turns (flex jets).
Bike strong from the bottom, but has a flat spot at last gears between 7500-8200 rpms (WOT), from 8200-10000 strong again. Really I can't understand what is it lean or rich. The speed is too high at this RPMs at high gears and roads are too bad, so I can't pay enough attention to engine.
My thought is to try to rise needles first, to make the transition richer.
What do you think my friends?

Ambient temperature is 25-30 C, sea level.
2-1 exhaust setup with Acra, db-killer out.
Interesting!
I think it is a rich spot, where the bottleneck is the 2-1 and if anything, I would lower the needles half a step. First thing I would try though, just because it is easy, would be to raise the rear needle one step. That would show if raising is the right direction. To compensate for small throttles, I would also turn the rear fuel screw 1 turn further out.
All that assumes that the mains are the right size.

I also believe that unless you make a proper 2-1 with a proper joint, where the tube after the joint has larger diam. than the two connecting and the end can has a larger internal diam. and volume, you will never enjoy the full sebang of the filter mod!

mousitsas screwed with this post 06-08-2014 at 07:52 AM
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:50 PM   #516
iluha_adv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
Interesting!
I think it is a rich spot, where the bottleneck is the 2-1 and if anything, I would lower the needles half a step. First thing I would try though, just because it is easy, would be to raise the rear needle one step. That would show if raising is the right direction. To compensate for small throttles, I would also turn the rear fuel screw 1 turn further out.
All that assumes that the mains are the right size.

I also believe that unless you make a proper 2-1 with a proper joint, where the tube after the joint has larger diam. than the two connecting and the end can has a larger internal diam. and volume, you will never enjoy the full sebang of the filter mod!
Thanks for reply. About can and tube diam: can diam is constant, it's acrapovic, so the tube after the joint has the same size as an Acra can.
By the way, i don't feel this flat spot at lower gears, only at highest.
I'll try to do what U suggest.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:36 PM   #517
Thumper996
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Well after several thousand miles over the summer i gotta say this is the best mod i have done to the bike second to suspension rework. I have decided i am going to give the 50 IAJ's a try again and drop my needle and see where i land. Current setup is 99% what i want, but when stone cold the bike can be a bit of a PITA to start even with enricher's. Have a ever so barely noticeable surge when cruising, i mean i can barley feel it.

I bet based on your EXPERT testing if i drop down to 50 IAJ's and change needles to slot 4 (possibly 3) instead of slot 5 i will fix those two issues.

Current Setup (Aggressive Street Sport Riding):
FMF cans
Part Factory Pro kit and Part H2W kit for my jetting
Main Jets 170R / 168F
Pilot Jet #45
Needles Factory Pro Ti needle 5 position from top
IMS screws 2.5 turns (Flex-Jet installed for easy adjustment)
Air Jet #70 as supplied by H2W to replace stock #50
Float Height 3.5MM

SW ,need your advise,

Went to your setup from the above and it is better starting but Sucks A$$ at full throttle midrange runs . Feels like it is starving for fuel big time. Mid-range, idle all seem great and cruise is good, but WFO throttle is terrible. Thinking about going back up on mains to what i had. Suggestions please.

Current setup:
FMF cans
Part Factory Pro kit and Part H2W kit for my jetting
Main Jets 168R / 165F
Pilot Jet #45
Needles Factory Pro Ti needle 3 position from top
IMS screws 2.25 turns (Flex-Jet installed for easy adjustment)
Air Jet #50
Float Height 3.5MM
Suggestion, should i raise needles to slot 4 from top or up the jets back to what i had 170R / 168F

Thumper996 screwed with this post 06-18-2014 at 04:43 AM
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:32 AM   #518
mousitsas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluha_adv View Post
By the way, i don't feel this flat spot at lower gears, only at highest.
CV carbs tend to enrichen mixture with increasing load, so you will run richer on 6th than you do on 4th.
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:53 AM   #519
Sporting Wood OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper996 View Post
SW ,need your advise,

Went to your setup from the above and it is better starting but Sucks A$$ at full throttle midrange runs . Feels like it is starving for fuel big time. Mid-range, idle all seem great and cruise is good, but WFO throttle is terrible. Thinking about going back up on mains to what i had. Suggestions please.

Current setup:
FMF cans
Part Factory Pro kit and Part H2W kit for my jetting
Main Jets 168R / 165F
Pilot Jet #45
Needles Factory Pro Ti needle 3 position from top
IMS screws 2.25 turns (Flex-Jet installed for easy adjustment)
Air Jet #50
Float Height 3.5MM
Suggestion, should i raise needles to slot 4 from top or up the jets back to what i had 170R / 168F
Just to confirm, air jets are 80 & 50, stock right?

If its lean at full throttle wfo then by all means increase main jet size. My baseline is merely a starting point for utilizing 45 pilots. I recommend testing increasing main jets until you find the one that gives the most top end power measured either by dyno or top speed. Once you're there on top, then adjust the bottom to compensate, likely needing to lean it a bit.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:58 PM   #520
Chuckracer
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After a few thousand miles I'm finally about to play with my jetting and as it seems a little lean up top I figured I'll start there. I forget what's in there...it's whatever Chris recommended w/ the Factory kit.
It's also kinda hard starting cold and I want to clear up a little fluff at very low throttle, slow speeds.

Other news: A trip to Deals Gap this past spring on Rt. 81 saw 53 mpg consistently! That's great...true 250+ mile range! But that tells me she's lean and there's more, much more waiting for me inside.

Also, very dusty ride last weekend and the carb throats are as clean as can be so no worries there.


I'm at 800', get up to 2500 maybe (Adirondack Mountains are my playground), Wings cans w/ baffles. I normally run 91 octane non-ethanol fuel. The bike runs worse on the other shit they sell us with that corn crap in it.
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:38 PM   #521
Chuckracer
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Alright! 160/165 replaced with 165/170, air screws adjusted to 1.75 (one was 1.5, the other maybe 3/4...it seems I have the self adjusting air screw blues) and my goodness she runs nice! Picks up perfectly at small throttle openings and pulls even harder on top. Feels like it lost ten pounds.

But there's more available. I need some more Factory main jets...I'd like a pair of 172's. Anybody want to do some main jet swapping?
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:56 PM   #522
Sporting Wood OP
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Originally Posted by Chuckracer View Post
Alright! 160/165 replaced with 165/170, air screws adjusted to 1.75 (one was 1.5, the other maybe 3/4...it seems I have the self adjusting air screw blues) and my goodness she runs nice! Picks up perfectly at small throttle openings and pulls even harder on top. Feels like it lost ten pounds.

But there's more available. I need some more Factory main jets...I'd like a pair of 172's. Anybody want to do some main jet swapping?
I have a box of jets. Will turn up a couple 172's for you if I can find some in there. Same things in my bike.
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:25 AM   #523
NVTS
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Chris, I need to get down there and have you jet my 950. I've got a big trip in September on the western TAT and need to make sure I've got some elevation flexibility and maximum mpg. When would you be available next week?
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:41 PM   #524
Chuckracer
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Chris, I have 1ea: 160, 165, 175, 178, 180, 182 if there's anything there you need...
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:31 AM   #525
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Chris, I need to get down there and have you jet my 950. I've got a big trip in September on the western TAT and need to make sure I've got some elevation flexibility and maximum mpg. When would you be available next week?
Give me a ring when you have time. Slow week, pretty flexible.
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