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Old 04-02-2013, 04:53 PM   #106
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When we got to the meadow, Jason and Del started setting up a few cones. Jeff helped by skidding the rear wheel of his bike and “kicking” the cones closer

The cones were arranged in three lanes for Start and Stops. The object was to take off quickly from almost a stand still and then stop as quick as you could without passing the cones at the far end. The three objects of this exercise were body position, clutch control and threshold braking. When accelerating, you needed to position your body weight as far forward as you could. When braking, the emphasis was on getting “Moesha” back over the rear end. As for clutch control, instead of spinning your rear wheel or adjusting the throttle if the rear wheel started to spin, you were to feather the clutch. This kept the motor RPM’s up and allowed for smooth and even traction. The threshold braking portion really enhanced the lesson about getting your weight back while braking. There was a noticeable difference in how controlled the stopping was if you varied your body position. All in all a good drill until a little too much brake (or dirt) was applied and one of the mighty GS’s went down.



It looks like the crash bars bolts had come out and when the bike went down, it pushed the lower part of the crash bar into the engine case…never good when your leaking that much oil.

From the “drag races” to hill climbs…actually, it was more like taking what we just practiced with feathering the throttle to keep traction and applying it to restarting in the middle of a hill climb. Again there was the same emphasis from the previous day, The bottom wheel is the braking wheel. When we did the down hill exercises on Saturday, our decent was mostly controlled by the front brake. This time climbing the hill, the rear brake was the stopping power. If you put your feet down for balance and tried to stay in position with only the front brake, you usually started sliding down the hill backwards. But…there was also using the engine compression to hold the bike in place. With the bike stalled but still in gear, you could use just the tension on the rear wheel to keep your self in place. So stalling on a hill isn’t a bad option if your have run out of juice and are trying to figure out what your going to do next.

Once the brake concept was proven, start it back up and feather that clutch to get yourself moving again with minimal wheel spin. Now this didn’t mean reving the hell out of the motor and smoking the clutch, it meant having just enough RPM’s that the motor wouldn’t stall and using the clutch to roll the wheel. The smooth you get rolling the sooner you could get back up on the pegs and finish the climb.

It was just about lunch time, but Del had one more challenge before we headed back. A slow ride competition. Head to head, one on one, slowest rider returns, fastest rider sits it out. Also if you went outside the lane you were eliminated as well. Oh yeah…it was down hill too.


When it was my turn, I was up against Bill…a real confident and skilled rider…this was going to be tough.
When Del started us off, we barely moved, as we inched our way down the slope we stayed side by side. Both of us stayed right on the edge of our lanes, trying to make sure we didn’t bump bars, but not willing to move ahead either. About halfway down the hill with both DQ’d…we were so worried about running into each other that we went outside the lane at about the same time….
The “races” were pretty exciting. It was amazing how much more control everyone had with the down hills then they did the previous morning.
Eventually it came down to Andrew and George. Side by side all the way down, George started pulling ahead but Andrew started skidding the rear wheel.



Just when you thought Andrew was out, George went out of the lane…Andrew took home the title…

Off to lunch….
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #107
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Trying to keep from having random pictures all over the thread, I've gone back and updated a few posts with new pictures I borrowed from a couple others who took pictures that weekend....
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:31 PM   #108
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Another great meal…a beef fajita type wrap..
During lunch, Shawn Thomas gave a presentation on riding gear and hardware. Mostly a retail type brief for the Adventure Life portion of RawHyde, but for the newer riders it gave a lot of information about what are needed investments for your bike based on how you plan to ride. For almost all off road riding…a bash plate is a must…This is one of the dings to my KLR’s bash plate from ride in West Virginia…Somehow I don’t think the factory plastic cover would have provided much protection.



After lunch it was a quick trail ride back to the meadow then up on the ridge above it.



It was time for some steep off camber S-turns. The high point of the turn is about 6-8 feet above the bottom. You had to have your momentum just right or you might have issues. If you were going to slow and lost your balance, you would tumble down to the bottom…no big deal except one of the turns was known to have a rattlesnake living in the brush at the bottom. (They did check before starting the exercise). On the other hand, if you went too fast and over shot the turn at the top…it was over the side of the ridge and down into the brush on the other side…so no pressure




All in all, most of the group had no issues after the first or second time…


But that didn’t mean it always went well.



We even had a GS roll down the hill when one of the guys lost his balance and fell…


After the side hill sweeper turns, it was another short trail ride back to the teeter-totter area for some hill climbs.

This was the same area where we got a chance to try the hill climbs yesterday, but this time we had a few more “tools” to use. With the feathering and body position drills, some of the challenging sections yesterday seemed smoother and easier today…Del also offered up a couple more sections. One had a log at the bottom and a transition halfway up so the grabbing a handful of throttle technique didn’t work so well. We also had a S-turn uphill with loose dirt and small steps that required a pretty steady throttle.






(Photos by Kyle Johnson)



It was coming down from one of the hill climbs that we had our first and thankfully last major injury of the class. Nelson got a bit out of shape near the bottom of a decent and went down. Somehow he got his foot caught up and hurt it pretty good. The response from every one involved was fantastic. Those closest helped, those not right there at the time kept back out of the way.



Since we had two orthopedic surgeons in the class (one was Nelson), they took care of most of it. Jeff went back and got the truck and Jim and crew got Nelson some medical attention. It appears he broke his foot and ended up staying the night at the hospital.

Then it was back at it…since the climbing part of the hills didn’t seem to be much of a challenge for this group…he had another challenge for us...if we chose to accept it. If I remember right, Andrew and I weren’t given much of a choice.
The challenge was an interesting little loop of hill climbs and decents. The first climb was up a wooden wall, then around and down, and then back up...the dirt was a mix of soft sand and hardpack and in order to make the second climb you had to keep your momentum up when you rounded the turn at the bottom.

Concentrating on riding, I didn't get any pictures of it, but these photos are from the Adventure Rider Challenge RawHyde hosted using the same section.
Motocrazy's Adv Thread





The first climb is to the left of the bottom picture.

My first attempt didn't good so well, I made it up the first part and through the down hill, but got out of shape and got off the trail into the soft stuff to the right hand side just past halfway up. If I tried to power up the hill, I just dug it deeper. Figuring going back down was my best (only) option, I was able to get the bike turned around by rocking the handlebars... 1st attempt - defeated
On the second attempt, almost the exact same results except this time I worried too much about the right side and went off the left...this time I was wedged into the sand and brush enough that I just stepped off the bike and waited for help leaving the bike standing there on it's own. Back down the hill....

I was bound and determined to get conquer this obstacle...third time... a bit more air off the wooden uphill....more speed carried through the down hill...and straight to the top of the second climb....

I then told Del we could go on to the next exercise...no really...it's in the video. He asks me if I'm ready now



Then it was down to the pavement for "lofting"
It was not wheelie-ing...it was about getting the front wheel up enough to smoothly clear obstacles on the trail. The was to go down the lane, pick a spot and "loft" the front wheel up about 6" or so to clear the mark. After a few runs at that it was back to the meadow for the practical exercise. There was a half burried log that stuck up about maybe 4". I thought the object was clear the log with the front tire. So I would blip the throttle about a foot or so before the log but with the dirt and street tires I would just spin the rear wheel and hit the log. I tried again and again. trying to preload the suspension, attempting differant body postioning...nothing worked, I couldn't get the front end up and over the log without touching it.
On on of the last attempts, I got frustrated enough that I stalled the bike as I approached the log. I kept rolling and got it restarted just before I reached the log. More annoyed at the log then anything else, I gassed it as the front tire hit the log and popped the bike up into the air....I hear the coaches yelling "There you go..good job"...crap...we were supossed to accelerate over the log, not clear it with the front tire.
Well, in that case.....I used the last few passes to see how high I could get the bike in the air off a 4" bump
High enough for Jeff to remind me it was a rental and the BMW's don't do that well with airtime (at least not the rental fleet)

Well, that was the last drill for our class...it was back to the compound.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:55 AM   #109
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Nice looking control there Dave! Especially on an unfamiliar bike!
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:43 AM   #110
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Nice looking control there Dave! Especially on an unfamiliar bike!
Kinda glad I didn't have one of my bikes.
The DRZ and KLR would have been too easy...both bikes would have handled the trails we rode easily.
The KTM may have been to hard to control. With all the slow speed maneuvering, the KTM's touchy throttle may have been a bit frustrating...

The F800 was just right (after a half day of adjusting and readjusting the controls)....also it was rental and it got ridden like one
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:35 PM   #111
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Any final thoughts, or overall ratings? Siskal and Ebert free-style?
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:34 PM   #112
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Any final thoughts, or overall ratings? Siskal and Ebert free-style?
Don't you have a cornerspin class to go to....
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:07 PM   #113
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Any final thoughts, or overall ratings? Siskal and Ebert free-style?
The body is not even cold yet and your cracking jokes....
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:13 PM   #114
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The body is not even cold yet and your cracking jokes....
Yeah dude. Stick with the siskel jokes for christs sake.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:42 PM   #115
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Dave if you learn how to ride in that hell called sand maybe you can teach me when you get home.
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So today started with deep sand...by the time we were done i was actually having fun in it...
Sand is so much fun to ride in once you get past the butt pucker stage. Well, I take that back. I still pucker pretty often, but it's fun to make every turn a barely-controlled two wheel slide.

EOD3MC has the right idea though. The deep stuff is nothing but speed. Blip the throttle to get the rear tire floating, and hammer on to get some momentum. Hang on for dear life. Let off the gas for a second and you'll be needing a shovel to recover the front wheel.

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After our assessment exercise, I tweeaked the clutch and brake adjustments. I ended up doing that a few more times during the morning until I got them how I liked them.
That tire situation is pretty surprising. Jimmy Lewis was at DV and Bob and I were talking to him. He is extremely adamant that even HE doesn't go offroad without good knobbies on his bike (unless it's for a media shoot). I'm definitely a few [hundred] levels under his ability, I'll take all the help I can get. It's one thing to do it on purpose like Cornerspin does, but to leave those on there just because that's what it came with?

F800s are great bikes, but it takes a loooot of modification to make them worthy of more than just gravel roads, IMO. I've probably dumped half again the cost of the bike into suspension, wheels/tires, bar ergos, steering damper, protection, etc... Just so I can do stupid shit on it.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:37 AM   #116
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That tire situation is pretty surprising. Jimmy Lewis was at DV and Bob and I were talking to him. He is extremely adamant that even HE doesn't go offroad without good knobbies on his bike (unless it's for a media shoot). I'm definitely a few [hundred] levels under his ability, I'll take all the help I can get. It's one thing to do it on purpose like Cornerspin does, but to leave those on there just because that's what it came with?
Note the license plate. Those bikes are owned by BMW. Unless it gets knobbys at the factory or the original tires wear out, BMW corporate probably doesn't just throw $ at them. Notice all the protection bits are from other sponsors, you don't see any of the BMW optional bits on the bikes. You'd think BMW would outfit the bikes with all their own parts (crash bars, bash plates, valve cover guards, etc.) but that doesn't appear to be the case.

EOD3MC, nice write up but there had to be a bit more to it than that?
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:16 PM   #117
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EOD3MC, nice write up but there had to be a bit more to it than that?
I got a few more videos coming....
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:37 AM   #118
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Note the license plate. Those bikes are owned by BMW. Unless it gets knobbys at the factory or the original tires wear out, BMW corporate probably doesn't just throw $ at them. Notice all the protection bits are from other sponsors, you don't see any of the BMW optional bits on the bikes. You'd think BMW would outfit the bikes with all their own parts (crash bars, bash plates, valve cover guards, etc.) but that doesn't appear to be the case.
I'll throw another ring into the hat on this one. A bunch of us have been the BMW Performance Center in Greer, SC. This is not how "BMW Corporate" runs things. At their corporate run facility, there are literally a dozen or so tractor trailers parked in the "North-40" of the facility which contain tires. There are new tires and old tires everywhere oozing from that place!

On the bikes, every bike had knobs (TKC 80s) as I recall. Not one was close to "questionable" on tread. The bikes were even serviced on the last night to put back on the windshields, blinkers and mirrors for the dual-sport ride on day 3.

The car track which is home to only one of two "hydro tracks" in the US, the cars were getting new skins on some ridiculous interval (every 3-5K miles?) due to the skid exercises they were teaching.

The Performance center didn't put any "protection bits" on the bikes. However, they also had a $0 deductible insurance policy which covered everything! Surprisingly there was there was very little damage to the bikes over the course of 3 days and dozens of crashes--one big tank dent and breaking a kill switch over the fleet of the 12 bikes.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:34 AM   #119
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I'll throw another ring into the hat on this one. [cut] .
I've been to BMW's Enduro Park in Hechlingen and they also run TKC's and have a couple of full time factory mechanic's to maintain the bikes. The difference is Germany and SC facilities are corporate owned. Other BMW facilities like Rawhyde are "BMW authorized training centers". So not owned by BMW and probably tied to some BMW legal contract. I have no idea what may or may not be in such a contract but I'd guess the bike loaner program (for lack of a better term) is highly detailed in it.

I know that my local dealer in Ventura used to do all of the service for the Rawhyde bikes. Irv Seaver does the service now. When Ventura did the work they had to submit for payment from corporate through the same process as a warranty claim. And just like warranty, they could be denied payment if some BMW manager felt the claim was unjustified.

My point is, new tires on a bike with zero miles would result in a denied claim and no reimbursement.

This was told to me by the former GM at Ventura and also one of the upper level employees at Seaver. Both times I was inquiring as to why the Rawhyde bikes didn't have knobbys. Seaver did say they will put knobbys on the bikes if they have a legit reason to replace the tires.

Being outsiders, we can only speculate on how or why decisions are made. I learned a long time ago in my business (construction) that unless I was directly involved in a decision, I rarely had all of the information to accurately second guess that decision.

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:46 AM   #120
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Makes sense but at the PC they also had a practice that makes sense. When a new bike comes in, take all the new panels off and store them until its service life at the facility is over. Then put all the new panels back on for it to be sold. One could easily do this with tires as well. I assume that when they go to sell the bikes they'll likely put new tires on. Just a thought
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