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Old 03-20-2013, 09:51 AM   #16
Randy
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Originally Posted by rgoers View Post
Yeah... I like the fact that it REDUCES your gas mileage by about 3%.
... while costing more...
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:13 PM   #17
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It's cheaper actually and it puts a small dent in big oils pocketbook.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:46 PM   #18
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Oh for cying out loud....

....."Big Oil", really?

Until you change the laws of physics, there is no other energy source with the power content, availability, and ease of transport and use than petroleum.

"Big Oil"?

Pu-lease!

Ride a bicycle and STFU!



What a great idea, let's take corn, which requires lots of fertilizer to grow, and you DO know that fertilizer is made from oil, right? And also requires tractors to till the soil, and tractors run on oil, and let's use up farm land, and let's burn coal, to generate the electricity needed to convert the corn into ethanol, and coal is clean, everybody knows THAT, right?

And, then, let's transport the ethanol all across the country in big rig tanker trucks, they burn oil, you DID know that, right, because you CANNOT ship ethanol in pipelines because ETHANOL ABSORBS WATER.

And lets FORCE people to put this water absorbing garbage in their vehicles and destroy their fuel tanks, fuel line, and engines., and get worse fuel mileage, which requires them to buy even MORE fuel to get where they are going.

And let's make sure we take that corn away from feeding our people and our livestock and force the cost of EATING FOOD much higher.

Oh, yes!!!! Ethanol is GREAT!



Go back to school and pay attention in science class this time you moron.

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Old 03-20-2013, 03:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post
It's cheaper actually and it puts a small dent in big oils pocketbook.

Not true about cheaper. Less energy in a gallon of ethanol than gallon of gas.



Almost all places in Minnesota the cost per gallon of e85, when factoring the energy difference, is more than non 85.

http://e85prices.com/

Gas has about 114,000 btu per gallon
Ethanol has about 76,000 btu per gallon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

Putting a dent in big oil? I'd rather put a smaller dent in my small wallet.

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Old 03-20-2013, 03:50 PM   #20
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What coating did you use?
I had Hattar Motorsports in CA coat the tank. I've been told that they use a 3M product that is used to coat commercial fuel lines but to be honest it looks just like the silver version of Caswell epoxy. Whatever it is it sure has worked well.....so far anyway.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 10/10ths View Post
....."Big Oil", really?

Until you change the laws of physics, there is no other energy source with the power content, availability, and ease of transport and use than petroleum.

"Big Oil"?

Pu-lease!

Ride a bicycle and STFU!



What a great idea, let's take corn, which requires lots of fertilizer to grow, and you DO know that fertilizer is made from oil, right? And also requires tractors to till the soil, and tractors run on oil, and let's use up farm land, and let's burn coal, to generate the electricity needed to convert the corn into ethanol, and coal is clean, everybody knows THAT, right?

And, then, let's transport the ethanol all across the country in big rig tanker trucks, they burn oil, you DID know that, right, because you CANNOT ship ethanol in pipelines because ETHANOL ABSORBS WATER.

And lets FORCE people to put this water absorbing garbage in their vehicles and destroy their fuel tanks, fuel line, and engines., and get worse fuel mileage, which requires them to buy even MORE fuel to get where they are going.

And let's make sure we take that corn away from feeding our people and our livestock and force the cost of EATING FOOD much higher.

Oh, yes!!!! Ethanol is GREAT!



Go back to school and pay attention in science class this time you moron.


Yep! To all above points. Not sure that he's a moron, but your other points are accurate... In addition, another reason it can't be transported in pipelines is because of a whole lists of negative things it can do to the pipeline system. Same things it can and does do to motorcycle fueling systems, engines, exhaust, etc...

Yep, it cost more to produce and transport... has lower specific energy per volume... causes a myriad of problems in bikes (among other systems) of all ages... drives up the cost of food stuffs... most everything contains corn these days as is most of our livestock fed extensively corn based feeds. Take away food corn producing acreage and prices of food grade corn increases. Milk is higher, meat is higher... hell, Fritos are higher!

Yep, ethanol for fuel is only loved by those that truly have not a clue, or are brainwashed by those that make a profit from it being shoved down the consumer's throat. All politics unfortunately...
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #22
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Apologies...

...for the "moron" remark.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:12 PM   #23
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The alternatives to ethanol (it's blended into gas to increase the available oxygen content and reduce emissions) are worse in every way. MTBE is the worst offender. http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/water.htm If manufacturers would bother to keep ethanol in mind when speccing the parts for their vehicles there wouldn't be a problem. I ran E10 in my '83 GMC for 20 years with no troubles because GM specced the fuel system to be used with E10.

As for why corn is currently the preferred feedstock http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rbs/pub/sep06/ethanol.htm
As things stand now, if you want cleaner air to breathe, clean water to drink, and decent fuel to burn, you either learn to deal with ethanol, or everyone cuts their fuel use so much that air pollution is no longer a problem.

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Old 03-20-2013, 06:41 PM   #24
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Clean air?

Here's a fun fact:

A 2013 Ford Mustang GT, traveling down the road at 70mph, pollutes LESS than a 1970 Mustang parked in the driveway, with the engine off.

That is a fact.

In 1970, the gasoline was leaded. In 1970 the gas vapors would escape to the atmosphere. Those emissions were GREATER than what comes out of the tail pipe of a the new car driving.

Our vehicles are incredibly clean today. Ethanol is a boondoggle.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 10/10ths View Post
Here's a fun fact:

A 2013 Ford Mustang GT, traveling down the road at 70mph, pollutes LESS than a 1970 Mustang parked in the driveway, with the engine off.

That is a fact.

In 1970, the gasoline was leaded. In 1970 the gas vapors would escape to the atmosphere. Those emissions were GREATER than what comes out of the tail pipe of a the new car driving.

Our vehicles are incredibly clean today. Ethanol is a boondoggle.

That is interesting. I never considered it before but it does make sense when you consider the vapor emission changes since those days.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10/10ths View Post
Here's a fun fact:

A 2013 Ford Mustang GT, traveling down the road at 70mph, pollutes LESS than a 1970 Mustang parked in the driveway, with the engine off.

That is a fact.

In 1970, the gasoline was leaded. In 1970 the gas vapors would escape to the atmosphere. Those emissions were GREATER than what comes out of the tail pipe of a the new car driving.

Our vehicles are incredibly clean today. Ethanol is a boondoggle.
The type of fuel used has nothing to do with your example.

BTW, I don't need a lecture from an ill informed name caller concerning the economics of ethanol.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #27
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Yeah... I like the fact that it REDUCES your gas mileage by about 3%.
Try 25% to 30%. Maybe that's just me but I don't think so. 3% would be within normal daily variations. ymmv
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:46 PM   #28
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Try 25% to 30%. Maybe that's just me but I don't think so. 3% would be within normal daily variations. ymmv

Yeah, straight ethanol would probably yield something like 25-30% less fuel mileage, but we're talking 10% blends here. And there's just no getting around the fact that as a fuel, ethanol has less energy per volume than gasoline. "Watering down" your energy source gives less mileage per gallon.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:06 PM   #29
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Fun fact about ethanol: It conducts electricity. Gasoline does not.

Alcohol also absorbs water....a good thing, in some cases (no need to use HEET to absorb). In others, a very bad thing. I pulled this off some training manual for emergency responders. For engines that sit for a long time without running (motorcycles in snow states, boats every where) this sucks:

Ethanol has a greater affinity for water than it does for gasoline. Over time, without agitation, gasoline will be found floating on a layer of an ethanol/water solution. The resulting ethanol/water solution is still flammable since the concentration of ethanol is still fairly rich. Phase separation can occur in fuel storage systems where water is known to be present.

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/page/-/rfa...df/module2.pdf

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Old 03-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #30
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Corn = an excellent energy density/food source for fueling humans and livestock.

Petroleum = an excellent energy density for fueling internal combustion powered vehicles utilized for transporting humans.

Mixing the two = a less than ideal energy source for anything, IMHO! However, Ethanol mandates have resulted in never before seen profit margins for corn farmers. If that is what you desire then Ethanol has been an astounding success. I persoanlly think it's pure sh$t! Yet another politically motivated expenditure of tax payers dollars, but that's just me. I'd rather donate money to a worthy cause like St. Jude's than subsidize ethanol but again that's just me. If you love ethanol so much then so be it. I personally think it's a politically monetized joke.

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