Neutralize ethanol-plastic effect?

[Cakeeater]

I was digging 'round the interweb to find out more.

This site is good. Started by a BMW rider of all things who wanted to find ethanol free gas:

I seek out 100 percent gas for my ski boat...just because I don't want to absorb water into my system. Boat sits low in the water, lots of spray, etc.

http://pure-gas.org/about

Cakeeater

[Trans4ormer]

I use the Pure Gas app to keep my Super Duke R filled with Non-Ethanol gas whenever possible. Also a can full in the shop to top it off when I get home. My understanding is that Aprilia, KTM and Ducati are still doing a warranty on any of their bikes suffering from the ethanol bloat, even if out of warranty and you are not the original owner. Subject to change...check with your dealer.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Pork-Chop Express

Corn = an excellent energy density/food source for fueling humans and livestock.

Petroleum = an excellent energy density for fueling internal combustion powered vehicles utilized for transporting humans.

Mixing the two = a less than ideal energy source for anything, IMHO! However, Ethanol mandates have resulted in never before seen profit margins for corn farmers. If that is what you desire then Ethanol has been an astounding success. I persoanlly think it's pure sh$t! Yet another politically motivated expenditure of tax payers dollars, but that's just me. I'd rather donate money to a worthy cause like St. Jude's than subsidize ethanol but again that's just me. If you love ethanol so much then so be it. I personally think it's a politically monetized joke.

Pretty much dead on...

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Cakeeater

I was digging 'round the interweb to find out more.

This site is good. Started by a BMW rider of all things who wanted to find ethanol free gas:

I seek out 100 percent gas for my ski boat...just because I don't want to absorb water into my system. Boat sits low in the water, lots of spray, etc.

http://pure-gas.org/about

Cakeeater

I have a store less than a quarter mile up the street that sells pure gas. I use it for my lawn equipment gas and for my bikes. Unfortunately when on the road it isn't as easy to find when I need gas. But at least, I can top off at the local store so that the ethanol crap doesn't sit in the bikes for long periods. It is more expensive... not to produce, but because now, non-ethanol gas is a "specialty" item...

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Trans4ormer

I use the Pure Gas app t

I hadn't thought to look for an iphone app. But I just installed one. Thanks for that!

There are actually 7 stores with ethanol free gas within 11 miles of me, so maybe I can find it more often now. They'll definitely be gettin my business whenever possible.

[JerryH]

Ethanol gas is just plain bad stuff. It damages most rubber and plastic parts, including parts inside carbs and fuel injection systems OF ALL VEHICLES except those designed to burn E85. A vehicle can be designed out of materials that will not be damaged by ethanol, but it costs more. All auto manufacturers have to make a certain number of these vehicles to satisfy the EPA. We have a few of them in our fleet, that have never used E85. Since nobody wants the things, the manufacturers have to sell them for the same or less than regular vehicles to get rid of them.

Unfortunately, other than race gas and avgas, regular non ethanol fuel is not available in my state.

I have a 50 year old car, and a 40 year old car (both with gas tanks vented to the atmosphere) and so far have not had problems with them. If I ever do, it will likely be the cheap $25 fuel pumps, or rubber parts in the carbs, which are also cheap. There is nothing expensive or complicated to damage. All 5 of my bikes also have the tanks vented to the atmosphere (which IMO is the only correct way to vent a tank) but I have had several hundred $$$ worth of damage done, and I'm sure it was ethanol. I sold the 2 bikes with cracked tanks, they were not worth spending $400+ apiece for new tanks, only to have the same thing happen again.

I was checking Craigslist the other night, and came on a 2005 Tiger 955i with fairly low miles, and at what I thought was a decent price. I was not particularly looking for a Tiger, but it caught my attention, and I thought I might go look at it. Then I found out it had a plastic tank, and changed my mind. Oh, I also had a plastic gas can, kept in the garage out of the sun, and properly vented, crack for some reason. Again all I can think of is ethanol.


You cannot sue the EPA. The EPA is GOD. They are the most powerful government agency in the country. They can do what they want with no approval from anyone. We here in AZ have been waiting for 4 1/2 years for the EPA to approve a law that was passed back in 2008 exempting motorcycles from emissions testing. So far nothing. I have 2 that I have to swap carbs on every year to get them through the damn test.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by JerryH

Ethanol gas is just plain bad stuff. It damages most rubber and plastic parts, including parts inside carbs and fuel injection systems OF ALL VEHICLES except those designed to burn E85. A vehicle can be designed out of materials that will not be damaged by ethanol, but it costs more. All auto manufacturers have to make a certain number of these vehicles to satisfy the EPA. We have a few of them in our fleet, that have never used E85. Since nobody wants the things, the manufacturers have to sell them for the same or less than regular vehicles to get rid of them.

Unfortunately, other than race gas and avgas, regular non ethanol fuel is not available in my state.

I have a 50 year old car, and a 40 year old car (both with gas tanks vented to the atmosphere) and so far have not had problems with them. If I ever do, it will likely be the cheap $25 fuel pumps, or rubber parts in the carbs, which are also cheap. There is nothing expensive or complicated to damage. All 5 of my bikes also have the tanks vented to the atmosphere (which IMO is the only correct way to vent a tank) but I have had several hundred $$$ worth of damage done, and I'm sure it was ethanol. I sold the 2 bikes with cracked tanks, they were not worth spending $400+ apiece for new tanks, only to have the same thing happen again.

I was checking Craigslist the other night, and came on a 2005 Tiger 955i with fairly low miles, and at what I thought was a decent price. I was not particularly looking for a Tiger, but it caught my attention, and I thought I might go look at it. Then I found out it had a plastic tank, and changed my mind. Oh, I also had a plastic gas can, kept in the garage out of the sun, and properly vented, crack for some reason. Again all I can think of is ethanol.


You cannot sue the EPA. The EPA is GOD. They are the most powerful government agency in the country. They can do what they want with no approval from anyone. We here in AZ have been waiting for 4 1/2 years for the EPA to approve a law that was passed back in 2008 exempting motorcycles from emissions testing. So far nothing. I have 2 that I have to swap carbs on every year to get them through the damn test.

Hmmm... if it's such a good fuel, I wonder why it isn't mandated for use as avgas too?

But, yeah, it is hydrophilic and corrosive. Not only will it damage plastic tanks but will rust metal tanks. it will eat o-rings and other seals in the fuel systems and damage the insulator of internal fuel pump wiring, as well as the in tank fuel hoses on a lot of bikes. And that's just the tip of the iceberg...

[JerryH]

"Hmmm... if it's such a good fuel, I wonder why it isn't mandated for use as avgas too?"

Same reason EFI is not used on even new light aircraft. The engines in these aircraft have to be as reliable as possible, you can't just pull off the road if the engine fails. And regular gas (avgas is usually at least 100 octane, and contains TEL tetraethyl lead, so you cannot use it in a vehicle with a catcon) and carbs have proven to be the most reliable setup there is. If the EFI electronics fail, so does the engine.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by JerryH

"Hmmm... if it's such a good fuel, I wonder why it isn't mandated for use as avgas too?"

Same reason EFI is not used on even new light aircraft. The engines in these aircraft have to be as reliable as possible, you can't just pull off the road if the engine fails. And regular gas (avgas is usually at least 100 octane, and contains TEL tetraethyl lead, so you cannot use it in a vehicle with a catcon) and carbs have proven to be the most reliable setup there is. If the EFI electronics fail, so does the engine.

Yeah, well, that was my point exactly...

[Guano11]

Ethanol is to gasoline as Hamburger Helper is to hamburger: it's "filler" with no energy or nutritional value.

Thanks to pure-gas.org, I now go 11 miles out of my way for eth-free fuel. Can't say I've noticed any mileage difference (only a couple of tankfuls so far) -- but my ST1100 idled higher and more smoothly almost immediately.

No insight to the detergent packages, though. I wonder if the eth-free makes my vehicles more susceptible to fuel deposits vs. the top tier gas I was using previously (techron additive).....

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by rgoers

Yeah... I like the fact that it REDUCES your gas mileage by about 3%.

Yah.ethanol makes half the energy of gas when burned........... it's a racket just like MTBE was a racket.
MTBE was a waste product from producing natural gas,lobbyist's figured out a way to sell it.
Sure it polluted all the water it floated down on with cancerous effects.
But it made rich people richer and that's what counts.

Now corn growers are getting the magic subsidy for growing corn for ethanol,yet corn is needed for food and many,many other things worldwide,its not smart to use it for fuel.


Oddly my KTM dirtbikes seem un affected by ethanol in the plastic tanks,must be different plastic?

Fiberglass tanks tend to de-laminate with ethanol in them,yet my 76 Montesa gas tank is still ok.

[stevie88]

You anti boys "facts" are as ill founded as a junky repeating what his dealer tells him about the joys and benefits of meth.

[Steve G.]

Originally Posted by Chickenstrip

Hi Folks,

Since there are quite a few bikes (Triumphs, Aprilias, for example) that have plastic tanks that are warped by ethanol gas, I'm wondering if anyone's found a way to neutralize its warping effects, like a gas additive. A quick search didn't reveal anything.

My Moto Guzzi V11 Sport suffered from it very bad, it actually expaned enough to touch the front forks when I turned the headstock. I drained the fuel tank, and basically aired it out for 3 months, and it came back to shape.

[rbrsddn]

The tank on my '01 Speed Triple is slightly deformed, but not too bad. A guy on another forum used this stuff to seal the inside of his tank. http://www.caswellplating.com/restor...nk-sealer.html If mine gets too much worse, I am going to do it.

[withiam]

Gleaned this from a Cornell based article. Personally the stuff causes more problems than benefits.

Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 Btu are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 Btu. "Put another way," Pimentel said, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu."