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Old 03-21-2013, 07:28 PM   #61
Cakeeater
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Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post
Oh btw, a Canadian oil company has purchased rights to build a big refinery near Elk Point, South Dakota right on the Missouri river.
Actually, it was a Dallas company. And late last year they let all their land purchasing agreements expire. The project appears dead. They were going to refine oil from Canada. It was announced in 2008, died in 2012...but the South Dakota state supreme court just ruled (apparently too late to have any effect) that the project could go forward. Usual tactics by opponents: tie 'em up in court.

A majority of local residents voted to go forward with the project by the way.

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Old 03-21-2013, 07:33 PM   #62
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That's worth a chuckle. I mean, why would BMW want to build more motorcycles? They'd just have to charge less...right?

Many different companies try to make a buck in the petroleum field. There is no unified "they". The paranoia over "big oil" is pretty funny. Might as well start worrying about "big motorcycle" too....and "big mexican fast food".

I only suggest this: Let ethanol stand on it's own without being propped up by politically driven mandate from the EPA. If people like it, they'll buy it. If they don't, they wont. No law against "Big Ethanol" opening their own stations, is there? E-85 has turned into a bust. That's why politicians are pushing for e-15.

The bottom line is that ethanol as always been, and will continue to be, driven by politics.

Cakeeater

I'm chuckling too. You use BMW bikes as an analogy for gasoline supply and demand.

Even though it's a poor analogy to use to compare to a product a generic as motor fuel let's follow that a bit. BMW is fully capable of building many more bikes than they do. Why don't they, after all by your reasoning they would make more money if they made more bikes even if the market demand wouldn't absorb that excess production unless BMW drastically lowered their selling price. But they'd gain market share you say. Yea, but they'd lose money and their shareholders would not amused.

Your insistence that there is no big oil.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:49 PM   #63
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Your insistence that there is no big oil.
Oh, I know there's big oil out there. They lurk, everywhere. In fact, I bought a carburator that got me 150 mpg!! But those damn big oil guys came one night and stole it. Then they killed the inventor of it, and paid off every one else involved with it. Those bastards.

They're so damn evil they got Bush and Cheney to do whatever they wanted, and now they got Obama and Biden to suck 'em off!

I just wish we common people could kill all those Big Oil chumps. You know, get Little Oil to take over. Mom and pop boutique oil, something with a little handcrafted vibe, like Surly beer. Maybe a church group here and there could run a rig, and some volunteers could do some cracking on weekends. The farmers market people could transport it. Girl Scouts could sell it, door to door. That would be so cute!

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Old 03-21-2013, 07:56 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Cakeeater View Post
Oh, I know there's big oil out there. They lurk, everywhere. In fact, I bought a carburator that got me 150 mpg!! But those damn big oil guys came one night and stole it. Then they killed the inventor of it, and paid off every one else involved with it. Those bastards.

They're so damn evil they got Bush and Cheney to do whatever they wanted, and now they got Obama and Biden to suck 'em off!

I just wish we common people could kill all those Big Oil chumps. You know, get Little Oil to take over. Mom and pop boutique oil, something with a little handcrafted vibe, like Surly beer. Maybe a church group here and there could run a rig, and some volunteers could do some cracking on weekends. The farmers market people could transport it. Girl Scouts could sell it, door to door. That would be so cute!

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You may need a refresher for your meds........
Just saying.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:53 PM   #65
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Fun fact about ethanol: It conducts electricity.
Unless it has dissolved mineral content, alcohol will not conduct electricity. When alcohol is distilled the mineral content of the water that was used to make the mash is left behind in the still. Alcohol that is blended with non-distilled water will conduct electricity due to the mineral content of the water. I wish people would quit spreading half-remembered "facts" (nothing personal intended). It takes about 10 minutes of research to refresh a fuzzy memory. It's utterly ridiculous that we live in an age where access to information is the easiest that it's ever been, yet as a society we are generally more ignorant than ever.

k-moe screwed with this post 03-21-2013 at 11:27 PM
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:18 PM   #66
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Ethanol gas is just plain bad stuff. It damages most rubber and plastic parts, including parts inside carbs and fuel injection systems OF ALL VEHICLES except those designed to burn E85.
Nope. All 4 wheeled, road going vehicles, manufactured in the US have had to be capable of using E10, without any damage to the vehicle, since the mid '80's. I don't' think US powersports and motorcycle manufacturers were ever mandated to make the (very inexpensive) upgrades, but have in order to meet the reality of the US fuel market.

Alcohol (either straight, or as a blend) has been part of the US fuel supply since the beginning of the automobile era. If you want straight gasoline, be prepared to give up high compression/ high power output engines. Straight gasoline has a horrible octane rating (detonation can start at compression ratios as low as 8:1 and will always occur at ratios above 9.9:1); every drop of gas you ever bought in your life has had one additive or another in it to raise the octane rating. Prior to 1920 it was alcohol, in the 20's it was sulfur, beginning in the 30's it was tetraethyl lead, in '78 alcohol started to be phased in again, in the early 90's MTBE was used.

There are good reasons to not use food crops to make fuel, but of you want people to take your arguments seriously you can't be relying on opinions.

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Old 03-22-2013, 07:25 AM   #67
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All this "big oil" talk and no one has mentioned "big ag" (who most definitely plays a huge role in getting ethanol in our tanks, and profits from it)

Monsanto is in no way a paragon of corporate ethics, honestly I would rather give my money to Exxon Mobil if given a choice...

Plus ethanol f s up my Aprilias tank (I am airing it out right now to hopefully reduce the swelling) and reduces the gas mileage in all of my vehicles.

It pisses me off that it is being forced down our throats, but I have no choice where I live but to burn it.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:37 AM   #68
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I don't give a rat's ass about scientific data. All I know is, it trashed the fuel system in my antique Chevy, turned the fuel pump and carb diaphragms to stone after sitting maybe a year, it has an EXTREMELY SHORT shelf life and there are millions of motorcycles, boats, tractors, lawn mowers, and automobiles owned by TAX PAYING citizens such as myself, and WTF happened to our right to own these things without running shit in the tank?????? This was never supposed to be a socialist society and the government has no right to tell me what to put in the antique truck I've owned for 31 years and you environmental tree huggers out there can go f*ck off because I'm sick and damned tired of being made the bad guy.

FYI, if I didn't have to drive so far to get non-ethanol gas, maybe my antique wouldn't pollute so much. Geesh.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:39 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by crackerguy View Post
All this "big oil" talk and no one has mentioned "big ag" (who most definitely plays a huge role in getting ethanol in our tanks, and profits from it)

Monsanto is in no way a paragon of corporate ethics, honestly I would rather give my money to Exxon Mobil if given a choice...

Plus ethanol f s up my Aprilias tank (I am airing it out right now to hopefully reduce the swelling) and reduces the gas mileage in all of my vehicles.

It pisses me off that it is being forced down our throats, but I have no choice where I live but to burn it.
Now that you mention "big ag", some should go see where the base stocks for their synthetic oils come from. Found some interesting facts tracing down "rapeseed oils" production for xxx brand synthetic recently.

Sure took more than a few minutes to dig that out.....!

Just had to go do an Ohm test on my lab quality Ethanol, just to check for conductivity.

I should go check the test jar with various bits of fuel hose,o-rings, carb parts and diaphragms in "lab grade Ethanol". A few weeks since I looked....no damages last time after a couple months.Test still in progress.

What I know for sure is that I can drink that "lab grade" Ethanol. Sure packs a punch....!
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:42 AM   #70
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Monsanto doesn't have anything to do with ethanol, Monsanto doesn't farm. They simply supply products that farmers use. Most ethanol plants were and many still are owned primarily by small farmer investors, much like a cooperative. Ethanol was a response to high petroleum prices and surplus corn production.

BTW, I think Monsanto business practices suck too. One more thing, if a company can't use plastic formulations that are compatible with our fuels shouldn't you be pissed at that company? Almost everything with an engine uses a plastic fuel tank these days and most of them work fine with our fuels.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:44 AM   #71
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And after I spent two hours scraping hard yellow residue out of the carb (Gumout wouldn't phase it), I was in the house that evening eating some corn chips and it hit me....THESE THINGS SMELL LIKE CARBURETOR!!!!!!!

So if you think it doesn't harm older fuel systems, just stay in your little dream world with your "scientific data" and leave me the hell alone.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:45 AM   #72
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One more thing, if a company can't use plastic formulations that are compatible with our fuels shouldn't you be pissed at that company? Almost everything with an engine uses a plastic fuel tank these days and most of them work fine with our fuels.
Yeah, can I borrow your time machine so I can go back to 1952 and give Chevy a piece of my mind??????
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:53 AM   #73
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I had trouble with an 08 GSA stalling when it was pretty new. The dealer messed with it a several times, finally blamed ethanol and told me to try some non-ethanol gas. I located a station 50 miles from home that sells the stuff, ran the bike down as low as possible and filled up there several consecutive times. It didn't cure the stalling problems. That turned out to have been caused by the dealerships mechanic when he did the 6,000 mile service and fucked with a throttle body air screw that you don't fuck with...ever. They finally got that sorted out and it ran fine.

What did surprise me was that my gas mileage didn't noticeably improve while running non ethanol fuel. The bike computer as well as figuring the actual mileage when refilling was about the same as I got normally.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #74
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Yeah, can I borrow your time machine so I can go back to 1952 and give Chevy a piece of my mind??????
Ok, let's blow up the Ag economy and burn more fossil fuel so your 52 Chevy will be happy.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:42 AM   #75
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Ok, let's blow up the Ag economy and burn more fossil fuel so your 52 Chevy will be happy.
Don't underestimate the size of the US collector vehicle market. Too bad it's not just my Chevy.

Unlike the plate of brussel sprouts your mom made you eat, we really could send corn to feed the millions starving in Africa. Personally, I find it morally objectionable to burn corn as fuel when it could be feeding humans. But that's just me.
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