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Old 03-19-2013, 05:06 AM   #1
Chop Chop OP
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Eek One for the engine gurus

Well I have pull my 950 apart and are about to remove the heads and cylinders to replace the base gaskets after I sprung a leak in the area after drowning the bike.

Anyway after placing the rear cylinder in TDC (according to cam crosses) and trying to lock the crank, I discover the crank locking indent is not to be seen. After moving the crank a little, the indent shows up. But now the rear is not at TDC. It appears to be between 20-30 degrees out.

I have rotated the crank again to bring the cams and piston back to TDC with a screw driver sitting on the pot. Measurements confirm that cam crosses are at TDC and screw driver is at the highest point. But no locking indent on the crank. Move crank to locking indent and screw driver is lower.

Engine has be running fine with all normal noises and rattles etc. Rear head has been rebuilt before I had the bike and burns a little oil and puffs a little smoke from the rear from what I can gather is a faulty valve stem seal(which will be replaced).

The front cylinder is fine and aligns accordingly with TDC and locking indent.

A little confused by this and a couple of other 950/990 owners have also had a look.

Any ideas what is happening here? Not really concerned at it runs fine, but I am curious.

Bike is an early 03 model.


At TDC with cams facing inward and screw driver at highest position.



At crank locking indent position. Notice screw driver is lower.



Exhaust cam cross about 20-30 degrees above level.



Position of cams at crank locking indent.


Any input appreciated.


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Old 03-19-2013, 05:40 AM   #2
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Easy fix just drill a new dent for locking the engine at the correct position!

Not sure if there are any extra locking points apart from the 2 TDC points?

But its usually from what I have experienced very easy to pass locking point, really helps having an extra set of hands turning over the engine.

/Johan
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:52 AM   #3
Gustavo.Ramos
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There are 2 situations where the piston is at TDC.

a) compression stroke, spark, explosion

b) right after ending the exhaust stroke and before the intake stroke

When adjusting the vales on my 950 i had the same situation identifying the locking spot.

See the HOW for a brief tutorial on valve adjustment:

http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20...ve_adjust.html
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyADV View Post
Easy fix just drill a new dent for locking the engine at the correct position!

Not sure if there are any extra locking points apart from the 2 TDC points?

But its usually from what I have experienced very easy to pass locking point, really helps having an extra set of hands turning over the engine.

/Johan
Locking indent appears after TDC. As far as I know there is only one locking indent. Have look through the case at the crank with a torch. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo.Ramos View Post
There are 2 situations where the piston is at TDC.

a) compression stroke, spark, explosion

b) right after ending the exhaust stroke and before the intake stroke

When adjusting the vales on my 950 i had the same situation identifying the locking spot.

See the HOW for a brief tutorial on valve adjustment:

http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20...ve_adjust.html
Yep, read all that before I even started. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:27 AM   #6
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It looks like you are at tdc for the front cylinder in the pics. Since the front cyl. is 75 degrees from the rear cy., the cams would rotate about half of that, which seems to be the case. I would rotate the crank back to where rear tdc should be, take out the locking bolt, and use a thin screwdriver to feel for the detent, it should be there. My 03 certainly has one for rear tdc.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:53 AM   #7
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There is an indent for each cylinder.

RTDC = Rear TDC
FTDC = Front TDC

You can see the indents down the locking bolt hole if you use a torch/flash light

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Old 03-19-2013, 09:31 AM   #8
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also there are marks on both sides of the cam gears. for the rear you want to use the inboard side. hard to tell from the pics if thats what you are using....
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvRonski View Post
It looks like you are at tdc for the front cylinder in the pics. Since the front cyl. is 75 degrees from the rear cy., the cams would rotate about half of that, which seems to be the case. I would rotate the crank back to where rear tdc should be, take out the locking bolt, and use a thin screwdriver to feel for the detent, it should be there. My 03 certainly has one for rear tdc.
Only pics for rear shown. Forgot all about the 75 degree angle and wasn't thinking about this as the front lined up correctly. But it makes more sense now you mention it. I used a torch to initially find the indent before using a locking bolt. Moving the crank back and forward a little to find it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert View Post
There is an indent for each cylinder.

RTDC = Rear TDC
FTDC = Front TDC

You can see the indents down the locking bolt hole if you use a torch/flash light

Thanks for the pic. I used a torch the first time to find the indent. This is when I realised it was not where it should of been and checked the front for verification along with the screw driver for TDC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CRW View Post
also there are marks on both sides of the cam gears. for the rear you want to use the inboard side. hard to tell from the pics if thats what you are using....
Yes, using the crosses on the inner for rear and circles on the outer for the front.


Thanks all for the replys. I will assume(perhaps incorrectly) that the indent has been machined in the wrong position (apr 03 bike, and just slipped through QA) and mark the cams accordingly when I remove them for correct installation later.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:44 PM   #10
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When putting your engine back together, the sequence is rear pot then front. However, rear TDC is not found by getting the rear piston to be at its highest. You have a 50% chance of getting it right because on rebuild, rear TDC is determined by the mark on the timing ring and cam drive gear lining up, THEN locking the crank.

If you turned your engine as it is now to rear BDC, you'll discover your missing crank lock indent.

As you've leant, your engine runs fine as these engines are designed to spark at every TDC moment and not just on compression TDC. The only issue you will have is not being able to lock the crank for shim servicing. Something that, if you are careful about, also needn't be an issue.
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