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Old 03-27-2013, 03:07 PM   #226
Butters
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If it came plated from the factory or with a plated variation (i.e. drz e/s) it goes in dual sports thumpers. If not plated, it goes in dirt thumpers. Any question, it goes in dual sports. 2 strokes would also be their own sub forum.

This way, the dual sports forum of thumpers carries 80% of the typical general thumpers discussion, but a significant portion gets sent to dirt and two strokes. But those discussions are generally of less interest to the DS riders and vice versa.

Sure, there will be a handful bikes that will take some time to find a home (as happens with beasts and road warriors). But honestly, those bikes don't drive a very big number threads in thumpers anyway.

While a cc split may be concrete, it also forces numerous mild 250s in with race bikes. when the reality is, everybody seems to agree there is a natural division between a woods weapon and a single cylinder adventure bike. There is no magic displacement or weight that can separate that. But for 98% of bikes, it would be obvious where they go. I'm quite certain all bikes would find a home in a month - just as they do with beasts/road warriors.

The only issues with this is it doesn't solve the mega thread issue and since so many KTMs come street legal, even though they seem to be clearly a woods weapon, it may be difficult to classify them. not sure if a sub forum under Orange Crush would solve that.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:22 PM   #227
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Seems to me <>600cc is the best size split if we end up going that way. There is a lot commonality between current Japanese 650's, old Japanese 600's, current Husky 650's, old Husky 610's, BMW 650's, old KTM 640's and even the KTM690. There are no plated enduros, trail bikes or anything funky up in this range. They all do pretty much the same thing with only varying degrees of dirt worthiness.

Granted there is not much commonality among bikes below that with those same plated enduros, trail bikes and funky stuff like TW's and TU's. But so what? The idea is to split something off without killing the cross talk between brands and areas. From what I have seen here and the real world, there isn't a lot of natural cross talk between 600+ riders and smaller bikes anyway.

Therefore it seems like the least amount of damage would be done to the multi culturalism of Thumpers. As somebody else already said, there will always be that guy who rode his DR200 around the world or raced a KLR650. But, again, so what? Anything Baldy does is going to generate orphans. Seems the 600+ split generates the least number of those orphans.

The one thing I will never be in favor of a brand split. Not having that is precisely what sets this place apart from Thumpertalk, KTMtalk, KLR650net, etc. If I wanted every conceivable niche broken out I would still be hanging out at Thumpertalk. That crap ruins the fun. The cross brand, cross use and cross country talk is 100% of what brings me to this forum almost every day.

To me, enduro (plated or not) vs dual sport is somewhere in between the damage done by splitting based on cc or by brand. It neatly solves the two stroke issue also since they go with the enduros. But I see an awful lot of EXC's being used as casual dual sports these days. So this one orphans what is a very common dual sport these days.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:26 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldy View Post
I have many more posts to read through, but if I had a gun to my head right now to make a decision, I think it would be:

- Rename to Singles
- Make a modern 2-stroke subforum
- Make a >499cc thumper subforum
- Make a <500cc subforum
- Make a model-specific megathreads subforum

But I'd be tempted to do the first two first and give it a rest to see how it shakes out with an eye towards doing the rest 2 months later if the world doesn't end.
Wasn't the original issue that there were too many posts (million+) and that the megathreads were clogging up the front page. I'm not seeing how just the first two will help this. A rename is just that and the number of modern 2-stroke posts ending up in thumpers is really small, seems to fail the optimization principle.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:33 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by rch10007 View Post
How about:

Singles on the street = street legal = tagged = shiny hineys
Singles in the dirt = not street legal = not tagged = dirty butts
2-strokes = spit in your crack
The problem with that is a lot of states that plate anything with wheels and a headlight. There are a lot of KTM, Husqvarna, Beta, and other Euro bikes that are really dirt orientated and not the same as the old school thumpers.

It is kind of like pornography, I know it when I see it. If we called bikes like KLR, DR, KLX 650, XR, BMW 650's, Yamaha 660, Tenere, Pegasus and the like, Adventure lite maybe those pesky pseudo licensed dirt bikes would go away.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:43 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post

It is kind of like pornography, I know it when I see it.
It's funny - I really wanted to say that but hate the way it sounds. But honestly, that works just fine when separating beasts from road warriors. The tough bikes to classify are a small fraction of thumpers. Whereas easy classification rules like displacement result in bizarre results: DR200s sleeping with KTMs, cats sleeping with dogs. Chaos!
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:59 PM   #231
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Well, it seems displacement would cause infighting due to so many bikes blurring the lines...

A split by brands would seem generic, bland and form cliques...

Trying to sort by usage also blurs to many lines.

I suppose the only viable option left, that I can remember was an Asian/Euro subforum under a new title "Singles."

I can see that. I guess the biggest question in my head is what is the point of the forum to begin with because looking at thread titles in the Thumper forum naturally form manufacturer specific threads. To put the threads into manufacturer subforums really wouldn't change much but in terms of threads but it would make searches more relevant to the searcher.

For example, if I'm in a Suzuki subforum searching transmission issues, at least all the results would bring up Suzuki bikes that may or may not share parts whereas a search now would give you results for threads that mention Suzuki and transmission but it may be an actual KTM thread...kinda senseless in terms of search capabilities.

If the split to alieviate search functions, grouping bikes my manufacturer is the only idea that makes sense as the results would be relevant to the search. Nobody searching for Thermo-Bob opinions for bikes taken to Dead Horse needs to be sorting results that carry results for BMW or Husky, etc... I know that's a very specific example but it's just to make a point.

Just some thoughts...
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:16 PM   #232
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Agreed. 450EXC and 530 EXC are the same bike except for about three parts.

590cc +/- would probably be the least bad. Husaberg 570s go near KTMs where they belong, and XR600s go with XR650s where they kind of belong. Husky 610s and 630s go with each other, even though they could ride with either big or little bikes.

Brand split is better.

Putting the mega threads somewhere else is good though.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:48 PM   #233
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Eurotrash, Japcrap and then inside each a subforum 2T and 4T. Segregating by displacement covers to broad a spectrum.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:52 PM   #234
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2 STROKES ARE NOT NOW NOR HAVE NEVER BEEN THUMPERS! What the hell is wrong with people?
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:07 PM   #235
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2 STROKES ARE NOT NOW NOR HAVE NEVER BEEN THUMPERS! What the hell is wrong with people?
maybe not, but they are singles.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:12 PM   #236
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maybe not, but they are singles.
Not all of them , but this thread is about thumpers , not singles.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:24 PM   #237
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How about "woods weapon" and "touring thumper" ?

If you are gonna ride across states you are gonna search they the same luggage threads whether its a yamazukonda or a BMWVARNATM. And they would be in touring thumps... Whether its a 250 or a 690


Quote:
Originally Posted by Butters View Post

While a cc split may be concrete, it also forces numerous mild 250s in with race bikes. when the reality is, everybody seems to agree there is a natural division between a woods weapon and a single cylinder adventure bike. There is no magic displacement or weight that can separate that. But for 98% of bikes, it would be obvious where they go. I'm quite certain all bikes would find a home in a month - just as they do with beasts/road warriors.

The only issues with this is it doesn't solve the mega thread issue and since so many KTMs come street legal, even though they seem to be clearly a woods weapon, it may be difficult to classify them. not sure if a sub forum under Orange Crush would solve that.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:38 PM   #238
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I dont think there is any sort of split that would not cut somebody off from some sort of information , whether it be by brand , country , continent , displacement or type of riding. There are still many things that are common to all.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:52 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Stretch67 View Post
(Sigh)

It's only a million.
I thought the DR650 thread was at a one million by itself.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:10 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldy View Post
I have many more posts to read through, but if I had a gun to my head right now to make a decision, I think it would be:

- Rename to Singles
Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Not all of them , but this thread is about thumpers , not singles.
Not for long.
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