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Old 03-24-2013, 06:38 PM   #31
Dragonflylily
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I took the class by myself but it seemed like the rest of the group had buddies, husband/boyfriend and a woman my age with her father.

It was tough but with good reason. Your life is dependent on the skills you develop during the class. At one point I had a difficult time completing a skills test on the bike, the very loud instructor pulled me aside & told me I had what it takes but I had to "get my head" together. I was near tears but I wanted to pass that class like my life depended on it. Having the instructor notice my frustration level & give me positive reinforcement got me through the rest of the day.

The next day three people did not return, the father & daughter team & another person. Not everyone passed, it's difficult. I can't imagine taking the class because someone else wanted me to. My husband has a license but doesn't ride, he did not want me on a bike but he was gone & I had signed up. It was tough but worth it. It has saved my life more than once.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:39 PM   #32
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my surfing buddy failed the MSF BRC course

Got sent home actually halfway through the second day. Couldn't figure out the clutch and wrap his mind around the multiple channels of information you have to process while piloting a motorcycle.

He's taking it again next week for free (CA). Like a previous poster said, he came back angry and determined. A good sign for internal motivation.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:27 PM   #33
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The ones in Alberta do!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
What BRC course takes you out on the road for your test? You are talking about two totally different things.
Not sure what BRC even is but I'm referring to Not taking the safety council course but writing (challenging)the exam and doing the road test to get my motorcycle endorsement on my drivers license. People that take safety council course get good training but also are made aware of what road test examiners will be looking for.we do our road test out on the roads. Makes sense to me.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by xcountry41 View Post
Not sure what BRC even is but I'm referring to Not taking the safety council course but writing (challenging)the exam and doing the road test to get my motorcycle endorsement on my drivers license. People that take safety council course get good training but also are made aware of what road test examiners will be looking for.we do our road test out on the roads. Makes sense to me.
I took the DMV tests and got my license several years before I ever took a BRC. The Man didn't give me a hard time at all. I don't think I even got hit for any points. The BRC coaches DID give me a hard time though. They also realized within the first 5 minutes of class that I had both a thick skin AND a sense of humor.

Damn the Man, and come visit freedom-lovin' 'Merika! Visit states that allow carried handguns, riding without helmets, driving without seatbelts, cars without DRLs, and women without bras. Git you a taste of freedom!

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Old 03-24-2013, 11:16 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcountry41 View Post
Not sure what BRC even is but I'm referring to Not taking the safety council course but writing (challenging)the exam and doing the road test to get my motorcycle endorsement on my drivers license. People that take safety council course get good training but also are made aware of what road test examiners will be looking for.we do our road test out on the roads. Makes sense to me.
BRC(Basic Rider Course), probably similar to your safety council course. In Virginia you can also not take the BRC and just do the riding test at a DMV(Dept. of Motor Vehicles) office.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:27 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
BRC(Basic Rider Course), probably similar to your safety council course. You can also not take the BRC and just do the riding test at a DMV(Dept. of Motor Vehicles) office.
This depends on which state you're in. FL requires a BRC now.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:36 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
A lot of people don't pass the first time. A lot of people don't even pass the 2nd time. Public roads are not the place to learn how to operate a moto though. .
I failed, my wife failed. No biggie. We took the courses again and that set the base for a lifetime of continuos rider education and two wheeled adventure.

Three of us with a combined total mileage of over a million miles were commenting over coffee awhile ago that our failing parts of the test was a great way to start riding and has likely made us better and more studious riders.

Suggest your GF read this thread, and let her see that it is ok to fail the test.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:20 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill 310 View Post
I failed, my wife failed. No biggie. We took the courses again and that set the base for a lifetime of continuos rider education and two wheeled adventure.

Three of us with a combined total mileage of over a million miles were commenting over coffee awhile ago that our failing parts of the test was a great way to start riding and has likely made us better and more studious riders.

Suggest your GF read this thread, and let her see that it is ok to fail the test.
+ a million, or 2 or 3!

Hear Hear!
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by txwanderer View Post
First, was it your idea for her to ride or hers? If not hers, then shame on you.

Second, It sounds like the instructors failed her. There should be no rush, although some feel that way, and there sould be a manageable class size with adequate coaches. There should have been a list of things to work on and then some pointers on how to work at it.

IMHO, unless spacifically noted, the riders should have some kind of saddle time. Walking into something you never have done and not having the calss set up for it is a double hit on her. Working a clutch on a car and a bike are very different.

All BRC courses aren't done equally and some are down right brutal. People get so used to having experienced riders, they sometime forget to work on nuts and bolts. (Instructor failure again)

There is also the fact that some people should not be on two wheels, no matter how badly they want to. Many of us forget how complicated riding a MC can be. Some are mnatural, some have enought time to forget the complexity, and some manage to stay alive just because it isn't time for them to go.

Don't dispair, but make sure it is something SHE wants to do. My pillion has many miles and years on the back andis a spectacular passenger. She also has no desire to grab the handlebars.

YMMV

Agreed 100%. Any pushing is too much pushing. This is something someone either does for themselves, or not at all. Said another way, I would NEVER want the blood of another individual on my hands if I "pushed" them into riding and something went wrong.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:35 AM   #40
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My wife had a similar experience. She was the only woman. And every one of the guys rode in on their own bikes and were experienced riders. She got sent home before they even got to the duck walk drill because she couldn't keep up.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:19 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by bracky72 View Post
My wife had a similar experience. She was the only woman. And every one of the guys rode in on their own bikes and were experienced riders. She got sent home before they even got to the duck walk drill because she couldn't keep up.
Not to be contentious bracky, but to clarify:

If the way you describe this did actually happen, then again, the Sponsor she took the course from did this completely wrong, against MSF rules.

Instructors are told to let the students know that the exercises "Are not a competition" and "Not to try to keep up with more skilled riders".

The duration of the exercises are not suppose to be dictated by a majority of the students, there are specific times ea one is run. They can be ended early if ALL the students show proficiency for that Exercise.

The only time someone should be counseled out is when they become a danger to themselves or others, NOT because they can't keep up with more skilled riders.

Something is very wrong there.

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Old 03-25-2013, 10:23 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Bill 310 View Post
I failed, my wife failed. No biggie. We took the courses again and that set the base for a lifetime of continuos rider education and two wheeled adventure.

Three of us with a combined total mileage of over a million miles were commenting over coffee awhile ago that our failing parts of the test was a great way to start riding and has likely made us better and more studious riders.

Suggest your GF read this thread, and let her see that it is ok to fail the test.


These are wise, WISE words.

If I had a dime for every time I read somebody write-- usually here at ADV-- that failing the BRC means you'll never get the hang of it, you're a danger to yourself and small children, you don't belong on a public road-- I'd have enough money to buy every bike I've ever wanted.

The MSF isn't hard, but it's not easy, either. Not for a new rider who may not have ever been on a bike before that weekend, who is worried about screwing up and/or hurting themselves (or others). We're all like Rossi now, but that first time on a bike is still scary as hell for 99.9% of us, and skill and confidence only come with practice and achievement. And accidents and mistakes and unavoidable goofs DO happen, even to the most experienced riders-- why the surprise (and worse, scorn) when they happen to complete novices?

Everyone learns at their own pace, and the a$$holes who insist that if you don't have it down in 10 hours of parking lot riding are ignorant of those among us who need *12* hours for everything to just click.

If she wants to take it again, take it again.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:50 AM   #43
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My girlfriend took an all women class. There were over 17 drops/crashes and one case of an impromptu wheelie gone horribly wrong (anyone who thinks a Buell Blast can't get the front up is wrong); there was one broken bone and another injury serious enough to have an ambulance called.
Anyway, my girlfriend did not pass the first time (and one woman who had over 5 drops did!!!), but the second time around she passed with ease and is doing very well now.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:58 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by echo15 View Post
My girlfriend took an all women class. There were over 17 drops/crashes and one case of an impromptu wheelie gone horribly wrong (anyone who thinks a Buell Blast can't get the front up is wrong); there was one broken bone and another injury serious enough to have an ambulance called.
Anyway, my girlfriend did not pass the first time (and one woman who had over 5 drops did!!!), but the second time around she passed with ease and is doing very well now.
Holy crap haha. I posted in the other BRC thread but I suppose this is more appropriate. I was planning on having my girlfriend take the course, but I think I'm just going to teach her myself. I think I remember the BRC well enough to teach her everything and I have a little booklet that has all the range exercises.

Over 17 drops, that is just crazy hahaha. When I took it we had 12, no drops and everyone passed, two women. Well one woman with some experience and the other a military gal.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:20 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Carlo Muro View Post
She came home in tears. This was my idea. She's logged thousands of miles behind me but has never thrown a leg over the driver's seat - of any motorcycle. She drives a manual transmission so she understands the concept of clutch, gearshift, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzItLies View Post
Let's clear some stuff up first everyone, this is really important:

1) This "12 hour day" should never have happened. The MSF BRC is 10 hours of range time over 2 days. The organization that did this has overstepped their bounds. The class should have been rescheduled.

From the MSF point of view, it basically comes down to exhaustion and fatigue, new riders are learning an awful lot of things that others take for granted. It's mentally draining.

So this is not the fault of the MSF. It's the fault of the individual Sponsor, it was their decision. If they had followed the MSF rules, it would not have happened.
This. OK, she knows, in theory, how a manual transmission works. That doesn't always translate to doing the same on a bike, with completely different appendages, and some differences in usage. (In a car, it's always been "get off the clutch ASAP", in a BRC, there are exercises where controlled slipping of the clutch is expected.)

We (warning, rebel state thinking here) look at students as having mental whiteboards. When you first teach them something, they write it really big; as time goes on, they re-write it smaller, making room for something else. You can't give them too much at once- the whiteboard gets full. You can't give them too much in a day- they get tired of "writing".

Twelve hours at once is too much "writing"; most students are done before half of that. They've stopped "writing" and are just "remembering" what they learn- it'll never make it to the whiteboard for longer term retention.

Quote:
2) If you want to scare this Sponsor to death, tell them you are going to call the MSF and tell them what they did. They could potentially have their license pulled. AKA: Out Of Business.
I don't know what state the OP is in, but the way most states are set up, the state coordinator would be the office to talk to- and IMO, they just need to know, because that was BS... and it may not have been an isolated incident.
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