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Old 03-31-2013, 07:51 PM   #61
supershaft
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Oh no! That looks somewhat like a down under version of David Hough. You poor bastards.

Finish tight? Sure, if you want to take two trips to haul ass. Well, at least it doesn't look like they are advising to get into the corner late like Hough does. THAT advise is about as nonsensical as it gets. Make corners safer by turning in super late. Sure! All to make exiting the corner safer? Exiting the corner is the easy part!!!
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:53 PM   #62
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This is mountain advice, not racetrack advice.
It is avice on how best to ride a single lane and not end up a hood ornament.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:21 PM   #63
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Well, we all know that you can ride sensible lines sensibly on the street. Even in the mountains on single lane roads! At least a lot of us can. If you can't, don't learn how to do turns like half of the turn isn't there. You can just ride real slow and accomplish the same goal. The throttle really does work both ways. If your are that far back in the learning curve to need to do that in order not to hurt yourself, sell your street bike before you get yourself killed and learn how to do turns right on some dirt tracks/bikes. IMO, street bikes are not the place to be learning basic motorcycling skills or, in this case, bad habits.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:43 PM   #64
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Bullshit.

Those are perfect lines for the type of road that the campaign is targeting.

It is in response to where, and how inexperienced riders are dying. Typically, these roads are close to high population centres and attract many experienced, and inexperienced riders. Particularly on the weekends.

The campaign is not directed at riders who can haul ass.

It is directed at novices who kill themselves by taking wrong lines and crossing over into the path of oncoming cars/bikes.
There is no requirement for anyone to ride dirt before riding the road.

The campaign advice would have come from many agencies, including major collision investigation police.
They are the guys with the tape measures etc and prepare reports as to 'almost exactly' how the accident occurred.

What would your advice be to the inexperienced riders targeted by this campaign?
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:07 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ME 109 View Post
This is mountain advice, not racetrack advice.
It is avice on how best to ride a single lane and not end up a hood ornament.
yeah, start wide so you get a deep view though the corner, end tight so you're far from the center and the oncoming squid drifting over the center line.

Cars drop oil on bumps and in corners, often I'll hold the inside track an blow off the view at the beginning of a set of twisties. Where the tracks are rutted and the center high, I hold one track. Suspension leaves a lot to be desired..

The airhead will drag metal on touring tires no matter what I do so it's not like there is a particularly "fast" line. It ain't racing...
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:29 AM   #66
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yeah, start wide so you get a deep view though the corner, end tight so you're far from the center and the oncoming squid drifting over the center line.
Correct.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:20 AM   #67
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Correct.
Something's been bugging me about that poster. I just figured it out.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:16 PM   #68
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Bullshit.

Those are perfect lines for the type of road that the campaign is targeting.

It is in response to where, and how inexperienced riders are dying. Typically, these roads are close to high population centres and attract many experienced, and inexperienced riders. Particularly on the weekends.

The campaign is not directed at riders who can haul ass.

It is directed at novices who kill themselves by taking wrong lines and crossing over into the path of oncoming cars/bikes.
There is no requirement for anyone to ride dirt before riding the road.

The campaign advice would have come from many agencies, including major collision investigation police.
They are the guys with the tape measures etc and prepare reports as to 'almost exactly' how the accident occurred.

What would your advice be to the inexperienced riders targeted by this campaign?
My advise would be slow down. There is no need to learn bad corning lines although IMO that advise isn't half as bad a Hough's. Further advise I have already mentioned. People ask me all the time if they should take a track day lesson or whatnot. My advise is get off your street bike and on to a dirt bike. Everybody should learn the basics on a dirt bike. Do a 1000 laps on your local dirt tracks and then take a dirt bike track day class if you are having trouble. When the fast guys lap you, watch them and try to learn what they are doing. That's my advise. 99% of dirt bike go fast skills transfers perfectly to riding a street bike much slower.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:08 PM   #69
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My advise would be slow down. There is no need to learn bad corning lines although IMO that advise isn't half as bad a Hough's. Further advise I have already mentioned. People ask me all the time if they should take a track day lesson or whatnot. My advise is get off your street bike and on to a dirt bike. Everybody should learn the basics on a dirt bike. Do a 1000 laps on your local dirt tracks and then take a dirt bike track day class if you are having trouble. When the fast guys lap you, watch them and try to learn what they are doing. That's my advise. 99% of dirt bike go fast skills transfers perfectly to riding a street bike much slower.
That's all good advice, but it doesn't help people who don't know.
Who the hell isn't going to speed when they first get a bike?
What we've been talking about is not how to race.
It is about the best way to keep riders out of harms way in a given situation.
The given situation here is narrow winding mountain roads. (my utopia)
It is the best advice to give learners imo. Then they can gain experience.

Go one better and trail ride your road bike.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #70
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That's all good advice, but it doesn't help people who don't know.
Who the hell isn't going to speed when they first get a bike?
What we've been talking about is not how to race.
It is about the best way to keep riders out of harms way in a given situation.
The given situation here is narrow winding mountain roads. (my utopia)
It is the best advice to give learners imo. Then they can gain experience.

Go one better and trail ride your road bike.
It's shitty advice. Everybody on the dirt track is going one way. You aren't dodging surprises like deer, rocks, gravel slicks, trailers swinging into your lane, etc. Dirt's good for learning how to slide a bike around but a road bike on some gravel works the same way, and you learn how to handle a MUCH heavier machine.

The road skills are less about handling the bike, not so difficult if you aren't going 90%, and more about dealing with the road environment intelligently.

I learned to ride on "dirt". Specifically a vacant lot near my house on a T500 Titan. When I got to where I wasn't running over the brush piles anymore I ventured onto pavement. That's learning from scratch as in never ridden (age 23) and on a big, peaky two stroke. I had that bike on a longer stretch of very rough dirt (monarch pass) by accident, learned how to ride up and down very steep grades studded with rocks, learned to stand up and ride over little ravines (It's a jeep road), learned to drop it on incredibly steep slick rock, and learned big two strokes aren't the best touring platform. Had my /5 on dirt once and learned that they really sucked on steep gravel downhills, no brakes...hard to put your feet down and ski with the jugs in the way. had the RS on some mild dirt once. Thought it was going to shake to pieces. Dirt is for dirt bikes.

None of this contributed much to street survival skills.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:12 PM   #71
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Dirt is for dirt bikes.

None of this contributed much to street survival skills.
I got a dirt bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwMQHP08XXA
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:02 PM   #72
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It's shitty advice. Everybody on the dirt track is going one way. You aren't dodging surprises like deer, rocks, gravel slicks, trailers swinging into your lane, etc. Dirt's good for learning how to slide a bike around but a road bike on some gravel works the same way, and you learn how to handle a MUCH heavier machine.

The road skills are less about handling the bike, not so difficult if you aren't going 90%, and more about dealing with the road environment intelligently.

I learned to ride on "dirt". Specifically a vacant lot near my house on a T500 Titan. When I got to where I wasn't running over the brush piles anymore I ventured onto pavement. That's learning from scratch as in never ridden (age 23) and on a big, peaky two stroke. I had that bike on a longer stretch of very rough dirt (monarch pass) by accident, learned how to ride up and down very steep grades studded with rocks, learned to stand up and ride over little ravines (It's a jeep road), learned to drop it on incredibly steep slick rock, and learned big two strokes aren't the best touring platform. Had my /5 on dirt once and learned that they really sucked on steep gravel downhills, no brakes...hard to put your feet down and ski with the jugs in the way. had the RS on some mild dirt once. Thought it was going to shake to pieces. Dirt is for dirt bikes.

None of this contributed much to street survival skills.
Your advice on riding is about as limited as your advice on airheads. And you accuse others of talking about their 3 bikes? The fact that you equate riding in a vacant lot to riding in the dirt speaks volumes. I grew up riding in vacant lots all over my small town in between going to race tracks and open riding areas. Well, at least until I was about 10 or 12. As I got older it became too much of a joke. It's NOTHING like riding in the dirt OR on a dirt track. Give us a break! You don't learn how to dodge things on a race track? Give us a break! Some of us here actually do this stuff. Try it before you talk about it. More than once or twice too.

Let me call BS on the idea that learning how to ride well has little to do with street bike survival skills. It has everything to do with it other than the common sense it takes to know to look out for things.

Me109: yes, I have ridden my street bike airheads on GS rides and whatnot. I have a lot of gravel road experience to single track and worse experience on airheads. Calling them a dirt bike in comparison to dirt bikes is a joke. A really funny one.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:39 PM   #73
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Calling them a dirt bike in comparison to dirt bikes is a joke. A really funny one.
Of course it is!
I'm always up for a good laugh.

My real dirt bike is an ancient TT600
Even that isn't a dirt bike, but it is fun roosting real dirt bikes on the side of a hill.

Edit, An RS is even funnier imo
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ME 109 screwed with this post 04-01-2013 at 05:48 PM Reason: for a laugh
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:26 PM   #74
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