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Old 03-30-2013, 01:01 AM   #16
PeterW
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Just a comment, you no longer need to own your own printer. There are a couple of companies which will print from CAD in the US.

ABS should just about be strong enough, but I'd have doubts too. Waffle interior and designed for one-shot use - maybe.


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Old 03-30-2013, 01:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterW View Post
Just a comment, you no longer need to own your own printer. There are a couple thousand companies which will print from CAD in the US.
FFY!

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Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
Expensive and fragile. The machines are even more expensive and very vibration sensitive, so special installations. Then you need a Solid modeler (3D CAD solids modeler) and software to translate the CAD into machine code for the stereolithography unit....

If you are making a model for a production run of a hundred thousand, yeah. One offs? No.
..
Commercial 3D printers - I'm not talking the maker-grade machines - start at less than $15,000 and can make rugged ABS parts. Like, say, a housing for a gyro-stabilized camera mount.
http://youtu.be/q5Ozaa1y-nw

The Stratasys Fortus line can make parts out of Polycarbonate that are very tough. I even made this, though it's just for show and tell.


There's a guy here already doing what the op asked.

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garandman screwed with this post 03-30-2013 at 07:31 AM
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
FFY!

Commercial 3D printers - I'm not talking the maker-grade machines - start at less than $15,000 and can make rugged ABS parts. Like, say, a housing for a gyro-stabilized camera mount.
http://youtu.be/q5Ozaa1y-nw

The Stratasys Fortus line can make parts out of Polycarbonate that are very tough. I even made this, though it's just for show and tell.


There's a guy here already doing what the op asked.
you're making "show 'n' tell" (models). The other guy is making "prototypes". Anybody making fully service ready parts?

polycarb is my last choice for anything but optical applications and bullet resistant panels. It's a chemically fragile material. I think it's use in helmets is criminal.

One thing you can do with stereolith is make patterns for molds. might require some handwork depending on your resolution.

You wanna spend 15K on a pair of hand gaurds? That's the problem. Even 1k would be silly for something you can buy off the shelf for $30. Maybe get a nut off saying you designed it yourself? An expensive hooker is cheaper and will tell you it's huge and you're good.. I doubt you could even job shop it for less than a hundred...

If you want real world parts to use for a price competitive with commercially manufactured stuff, stereolith isn't there yet. Other technologies are.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:45 AM   #19
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See one operate first. Great for rapid prototyping is the key here. Prototype doesn't always mean 100% functional.

These machines build in layers, imagine thousands of small seams to create thousands of stress risers. The process is no where near as good as a seamless injection or even roto molded part.

The ones that are getting big media attention are fine to make low stress parts and all, but no where near as functionally sound as a regular manufacturing process at this time.
According to a 2012 industry study, 20-25% of material sold went to end-use parts. Boeing produces several hundred different parts using SLS.

There is a big difference between the "maker grade" machines that have captured the popular imagination, and industrial products. We have a Stratasys Fortus 400 that can make parts up to 14"x16"x16".

If the part is designed for additive manufacturing it can be made just as strong as an injection molded part. You don't need draft, changing wall thickness is no problem, you can even change the density within the part, you don't have to worry about side actions, and you can integrate as many parts as will fit in the build chamber.

It's different than other manufacturing processes and if you don't design a part for the process, it sucks - just like every other poorly designed part.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:40 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
you're making "show 'n' tell" (models). The other guy is making "prototypes". Anybody making fully service ready parts?

polycarb is my last choice for anything but optical applications and bullet resistant panels. It's a chemically fragile material. I think it's use in helmets is criminal.

One thing you can do with stereolith is make patterns for molds. might require some handwork depending on your resolution.

You wanna spend 15K on a pair of hand gaurds? That's the problem. Even 1k would be silly for something you can buy off the shelf for $30. Maybe get a nut off saying you designed it yourself? An expensive hooker is cheaper and will tell you it's huge and you're good.. I doubt you could even job shop it for less than a hundred...

If you want real world parts to use for a price competitive with commercially manufactured stuff, stereolith isn't there yet. Other technologies are.
OK, lets just say that you don't agree with the choice of engineering thermoplastics used by most manufacturers.

Stereolithography is only one 3DP technology, and no longer even the most prevalent one. UV photopolymers were never the first choice for end-use parts. You don't seen to be at all familiar with FDM or SLS, which can make parts out of ABS, Polycarbonate, ULTEM, PPSF, Nylon, and others.

You're saying these parts are only used for prototypes when, according to the 2012 Wohlers Report, 20-25% of RP material is used for "end-use" products. I heard a presentation through SME from Boeing Aircraft. In 2004 they used nine tons of material and were producing over 200 end-use parts using additive processes - mostly SLS.

This thread is reminding me I need to write a blog article on Design for Additive Manufacturing. The economics are much different than injection molding. The materiala are more expensive, the process is slower, but you have more design flexibility and there is zero tooling cost and almost no lead time impact.

The housings and covers on these industrial robots are now built with additive manufactured parts. They're low-volume, high value, and change often. Perfect application.


Other areas where end-use parts are routinely made using 3D printers: dentistry and hearing aid shells.
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garandman screwed with this post 03-30-2013 at 07:45 AM
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:22 PM   #21
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garandman:
If you author that blog post ... please post a link to it here, or PM me with it!

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Old 03-31-2013, 07:58 AM   #22
garandman
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garandman:
If you author that blog post ... please post a link to it here, or PM me with it!
Stratasys has an article and White Paper on the subject.

SME is hosting a design competition.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:57 AM   #23
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I constructed an additive (as opposed to sintering type) DIY 3d printer some years ago before they were the new "en vogue". The technology is cool, and has many applications, but I sure wouldn't count making structural or crash protection motorcycle parts as one of them. I would definitely use it to fab up something like a custom instrument panel, but the construction method means that it has sometimes unpredictable stress/strain characteristics- kind of like composite materials.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:49 AM   #24
garandman
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Full disclosure, I work for a Stratasys dealer so take anything I say as venal and self-serving.

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I constructed an additive (as opposed to sintering type) DIY 3d printer some years ago before they were the new "en vogue". The technology is cool, and has many applications, but I sure wouldn't count making structural or crash protection motorcycle parts as one of them. I would definitely use it to fab up something like a custom instrument panel, but the construction method means that it has sometimes unpredictable stress/strain characteristics- kind of like composite materials.
The DIY systems have minimal strength between the layers. They also tend to be used at layers of around 0.020" versus 0.005 to 0.010" for commercial extrusion systems, and Uv photoplymer systems but down layers measure in microns.

The commercial systems have nearly the same properties in all orientations. But I haven't seen many "structural" plastic parts on motorcycles - aluminum machined parts, castings or steel weldments are more cost-effective, easier to repair, and the design science is more developed.

Here's the kind of part that makes sense. I needed a flag base to hold a flag staff on my Triumph for when I ride with the Patriot Guard Riders. None are made. I took some measurements and designed an upper and lower base to clamp around the rear luggage rack. This was the first version, which worked.


I was worried about the mount being strong enough, so I added a rib down the middle.This is the third design iteration, which I "wrapped" around the bracket for a lower profile.


These parts were made for around $12 worth of materials, in a couple of hours. An aluminum part would have been stronger: but it would have required programming, and then multiple setups on a CNC mill, or some skilled manual machining. The worldwide market for Tiger 1050 flag brackets is probably 3-5 units, so it works for 3DP, but not really anything else.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:37 PM   #25
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I do transportation research.
We put equipment on to vehicles using mounts made of SLA.

Here's my experience. When designed right for the application the parts work. But they are fragile much like mounting bosses on abs bodywork. They are perfect for small camera and sensor mounts or for boxes that hold electronics.

But for series production, mill/printer time is currently cost prohibitive.

You need to have or know someone with solid cad chops to make decent parts.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:18 AM   #26
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It is a rapidly advancing field. We have one of these at work that is used for prototyping but with different materials finished product also.

Just fore some added weirdness, they print clothes now too.



and

http://www.ecouterre.com/dita-von-te...-printed-gown/
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:21 AM   #27
garandman
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Prosthetic limbs.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman View Post
FFY!

Commercial 3D printers - I'm not talking the maker-grade machines - start at less than $15,000 and can make rugged ABS parts. Like, say, a housing for a gyro-stabilized camera mount.
http://youtu.be/q5Ozaa1y-nw

The Stratasys Fortus line can make parts out of Polycarbonate that are very tough. I even made this, though it's just for show and tell.


There's a guy here already doing what the op asked.



Thanks, just wanting to see if people have been playing around with it.

I have a friend who is running a small side business with several 3D printers, mainly helping small engineering companies with prototypes and oddly enough a number of art students with sculpting.

I want to try making some smaller bits e.g. bracket for a GPS, so was interested to see who is doing what.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:29 AM   #29
garandman
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Just as an industry comment, this Jingle created quite a controversy - some people in and out of the company thought it was the corniest thing ever, while others liked it. The controversy got more attention than the jingle. This video was apparently removed for a time, then put back. Note that votes and comments have been disabled.

Beware - you can't unhear what you hear! SolidSmack article.

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Old 04-02-2013, 05:44 PM   #30
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Here is another option for low volume parts: http://www.protolabs.com/

A few guys I work with have had good luck with them. I typically,use sla or sls for a part or two.
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