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Old 03-30-2013, 03:09 PM   #1
PTK OP
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KLR Cold Weather Oil Consumption Revisited

Posted a couple of weeks ago about cold weather oil consumption on a 2008 KLR.
Not to waste a lot of time, but the deal was that I changed the oil last fall prior to putting the bike to bed for the winter.
Did wake it up for some below freezing rides, maybe 50 miles.
Checked the oil view port and low and behold no oil was to be seen.
It appeared that the bike consumed the entire 2.5L in a couple of very short rides in very cold weather.
Today it's kind of warm in the Chicago area. maybe 55.
I removed the oil drain plug and out flowed almost 2.5L of oil so clean you could drink it.
No dirt, discoloration or water, just clean oil.
So, regardless of what was visible in the port, the bike was full of good, clean oil.
Refilled and looked at the port again.
No oil to be seen.
Closer examination yielded what appears to be a solid white film covering the entire port, blocking the view of oil.
My best guess is condensation in/on the glass, but I'm not sure.
I was going to attach a picture, but I guess it's not allowed.
Just visualize looking in the port and seeing what appeard to be a solid layer of light, pure snow.
Anyone else ever experience this?
If so, how did you deal with it?
Thanks.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:26 PM   #2
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I have noticed a pretty good film of white on the glass pretty regular.... especially after an oil change. not sure why, but seems to be pretty regular event at oil change & brand dosen't matter. I even asked a Shell rep at a seminar once how much water was in oil at manufacture... he said none. anyway, I knew it was condensation, the question is why. If I've ever had one fog bad enough where I couldn't see the oil I don't remember it... or I ignored it because I knew the oil was good.

PS... not just on my KLR either
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:32 PM   #3
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The Shell rep was being straight with you, there's no water in the oil, but there's water in the air that the crankcase breaths. As the motor cools in cold weather moisture will condense from the air that gets sucked into the crankcase. All you need to do to get rid of it is get the oil hot again and keep it hot for a while ie nice long ride.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_A View Post
The Shell rep was being straight with you, there's no water in the oil, but there's water in the air that the crankcase breaths. As the motor cools in cold weather moisture will condense from the air that gets sucked into the crankcase. All you need to do to get rid of it is get the oil hot again and keep it hot for a while ie nice long ride.
Agreed with DA. Nothing to worry about, once you get the oil good and hot you'll cook out that condensation and the sight glass will be back to normal. Mine did it once on my '08.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:23 AM   #5
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Unless the oil gets up to at least 180 degrees it is not going to begin to burn off the water acidic blowby and gas by-products all of which are not good for the motor. Having a stock 160 degree thermostat also does not help warm the motor up in temps under 55 degrees. You have several options, go ride - a real ride and get the oil temps up! The other, invest in a T-Bob. That will bring your motors coolant up to temp within a mile which inturn will heat the oil sooner too.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:22 PM   #6
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I am well aware of the temp needed to boil off the condensation & such. I just find it odd that I see condensation right after an oil change & almost never again over the next 3000 miles. that doesn't add up. it doesn't happen every time, but I have seen it more than a few times, and on other bikes, not just the klr. I know for a fact that the oil in our pipeline from Prudho has roughly 10% water content. it would seem like that would go away during distillation & processing but I have my doubts
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsotsie View Post
Unless the oil gets up to at least 180 degrees it is not going to begin to burn off the water acidic blowby and gas by-products all of which are not good for the motor. Having a stock 160 degree thermostat also does not help warm the motor up in temps under 55 degrees. You have several options, go ride - a real ride and get the oil temps up! The other, invest in a T-Bob. That will bring your motors coolant up to temp within a mile which inturn will heat the oil sooner too.
Tsotsie got part of it right. Go ride, get the temps up. Get rid of the condensation.

Wonder what the boiling temp of all of those acidic ingredients of that acidic blowby is? H2S is -76F, SO2 is 14F, NO2 is 70F... That acidic stuff is gone pretty quick, and based on the meager amount of condensation that does get in there, from blowby or oil changing, even if it stays in there for a while, it isn't going to kill your bike...

There are a gajillion KLR's and other bikes without perfect temp control that keep on running just fine without modding the cooling system. Somehow, Kawasaki got it right with this motor, the same with just about every other mass produced motor. Not perfect, but right.

Go for a ride, get the condensation out of your bike that comes from putting cold oil in a warm bike. It'll go away and wont cause any significant harm. And it's the perfect story to feed your wife for a 2 hour jaunt!!!

Or, I suppose that if someone were so concerned, save the money on the mod and warm the oil up in the oven before you put it in!
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Rey & Vann View Post
Tsotsie got part of it right. Go ride, get the temps up. Get rid of the condensation.

Wonder what the boiling temp of all of those acidic ingredients of that acidic blowby is? H2S is -76F, SO2 is 14F, NO2 is 70F... That acidic stuff is gone pretty quick, and based on the meager amount of condensation that does get in there, from blowby or oil changing, even if it stays in there for a while, it isn't going to kill your bike...

There are a gajillion KLR's and other bikes without perfect temp control that keep on running just fine without modding the cooling system. Somehow, Kawasaki got it right with this motor, the same with just about every other mass produced motor. Not perfect, but right.

Go for a ride, get the condensation out of your bike that comes from putting cold oil in a warm bike. It'll go away and wont cause any significant harm. And it's the perfect story to feed your wife for a 2 hour jaunt!!!

Or, I suppose that if someone were so concerned, save the money on the mod and warm the oil up in the oven before you put it in!
I believe that you too only got part of your response correct! A major byproduct of normal combustion is H2O. I have heard of as much as a gallon of water per gallon of gas burned is produced. This source gets contaminated with the various acidic compounds and you of course know at which temp it would boil off at - somewhat above your other stated temps. This is the major cause of oil contamination. It repeats the process everytime you run the motor. Most of it going out of the pipe (initially as water then vapor), but some going down into the motor and oil.

Now as for what might concern each owner and rider- that is their prerogative to decide how they manage the issue! Knowing why it is there is the beginning.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:32 PM   #9
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A gallon of water per gallon of gas! You're making me want to dump all of my bikes now. In fact, any gasoline powered internal combustion machinery I own is doomed.

My 1st point was, it's condensation. There are KLR's out there with 60k on them and they still have life left in them, regardless of all of the acidic fluids that get into the oil.

My second point was don't worry about the inevitable. There will always be condensation that develops when you put cold oil into a warm motor on a humid day. Worry about all of the "acid" or don't, who gives a crap. It's going to be there whether or not you want it to be.

I have yet to hear ANYONE on this board or any other have any kind of engine damage or failure due to acidified oil that didn't maintain their bike or other vehicle in a manner consistent with the manufacturers direction.

Personally, and its only my lame ass opinion, the only engine mod truly worth doing is the doohickey. And idle mixture screw access... other than that, anything else is adding complexities that simply increase failure possibilities. For most of the places I ride my KLR, I'm not willing to improve the odds of failure. Maybe the OP doesn't ride the same way I do or you do.

My 3rd point was... Ride more. It beats driving!

Nothing personal Tootsie, OP had a simple question and the whole acidified water in the oil that can only be remediated with the Thermo-Bob muddies the water, so to say... whether or not that will make the KLR a wonder bike is purely subjective.

Tapatalk 2 submission.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:47 PM   #10
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My KLR did this when I had it for sale. I would start it in the morning and ride to the front yard and put a for sale sign on it, back in the garage each evening. After 10 days had a lot of condensation on sight glasss. Riding to work one day cleared it up.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:37 PM   #11
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Thanks

Thanks to all for the constructive input.
It's been truly helpful.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey & Vann View Post
A gallon of water per gallon of gas! You're making me want to dump all of my bikes now. In fact, any gasoline powered internal combustion machinery I own is doomed.

My 1st point was, it's condensation. There are KLR's out there with 60k on them and they still have life left in them, regardless of all of the acidic fluids that get into the oil.

My second point was don't worry about the inevitable. There will always be condensation that develops when you put cold oil into a warm motor on a humid day. Worry about all of the "acid" or don't, who gives a crap. It's going to be there whether or not you want it to be.

I have yet to hear ANYONE on this board or any other have any kind of engine damage or failure due to acidified oil that didn't maintain their bike or other vehicle in a manner consistent with the manufacturers direction.

Personally, and its only my lame ass opinion, the only engine mod truly worth doing is the doohickey. And idle mixture screw access... other than that, anything else is adding complexities that simply increase failure possibilities. For most of the places I ride my KLR, I'm not willing to improve the odds of failure. Maybe the OP doesn't ride the same way I do or you do.

My 3rd point was... Ride more. It beats driving!

Nothing personal Tootsie, OP had a simple question and the whole acidified water in the oil that can only be remediated with the Thermo-Bob muddies the water, so to say... whether or not that will make the KLR a wonder bike is purely subjective.

Tapatalk 2 submission.
You have a creative imagination, drawing conclusions from substance clearly not intended. Read my last paragraph; "Now as for what might concern each owner and rider- that is their prerogative to decide how they manage the issue! Knowing why it is there is the beginning."
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:21 PM   #13
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Knowing why it is there is the beginning."[/QUOTE]
Warm air on a cool surface. Just like condensation on a cold glass.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:00 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Knowing why it is there is the beginning."
Warm air on a cool surface. Just like condensation on a cold glass.[/QUOTE]

And a toilet tank...

And I'm not trying to trivialize Tsotsie's position on acidic compounds in blowby gases, I'm just trying to point out that the amount of acidic waterborne compounds that remain in the oil in a KLR, and any other bike, are trivial.

And I'm not knocking the Thermo-Bob either.

I'm knocking complicated and expensive solutions to trivial problems, as well as complicating a simple question with a complex answer that can instill someone to then seek out the expensive (unnecessary) solution for a virtually non-existent problem.

"Wonder what the boiling temp of all of those acidic ingredients of that acidic blowby is? H2S is -76F, SO2 is 14F, NO2 is 70F..."

Those temps are science, I did not make them up. And 1 pound of water is the approximate by-product of burning 1 gallon of gasoline, so more like 1 pint of water per gallon of gas, not a gallon of water to a gallon of gas.

In my most humble opinion, Get Out and Ride More! Or, more beer! Just don't sweat the small stuff (pun intended).

Best regards to all.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:05 PM   #15
wayne_l
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i have a 2012 klr and a 2001 im from Wasilla Ak and n short trips where engine just get up to warm running temp and turned off mine would do this ..But when i run to Denali park and back it would clear up and not do it again till i started short trips again ..

Ride it and fall in love with her ... put her up wet !!
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