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Old 04-19-2013, 07:26 AM   #106
brittrunyon OP
R 100 GS F 650 GS
 
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Oh, so you want more photos do you?
Being a professional photographer I'm all for it, but macro images of motorcycle parts is not my forte.

So are you saying, unlike a chain drive of a motorcycle there is not a specific "number" that determines if there is too much slop?

I was never very good with "eight grade algebra" anyway.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:50 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brittrunyon View Post
Oh, so you want more photos do you?
Being a professional photographer I'm all for it, but macro images of motorcycle parts is not my forte.

So are you saying, unlike a chain drive of a motorcycle there is not a specific "number" that determines if there is too much slop?

I was never very good with "eight grade algebra" anyway.
Back up and use a longer lens, tons of light and minimum aperture. If you shoot Nikon use the MicroNikkor 55 Macro lens. Otherwise an 80mm+ macro. That'll get you more depth of field so it's easier to see the profile on the teeth.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:38 AM   #108
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Upon waking from slumber this morning I had what alcoholics refer to as a "moment of clarity".

Since we know that someone has been in here and what they did is questionable, perhaps dubious and/or unwittingly slapped back together, it's time to refresh and replace.
For the cost of about $130 I can replace
........crank sprocket (in the mail)
........chain
........tensioner
........chain guide
........crank seal
........cam seal
........etc
Then I'll know.
"My experience is to replace questionable parts for known good parts." quoting disston

I have Cycle Works pullers in hand.


But clarity can be short lived.
When the sprocket & bearing have been replaced, and the cam & crank are independent (not connected by chain), which gets turned to line up the marks?

If all was positioned as seen in the image below, minus the chain, I would rotate the crank clockwise almost 180 degrees & to were the marks lined up.........?
This image was taken at TDC (OT in the window)


Is there anything other than what I find in Clymers that should be known when pulling & replacing the crank sprocket & bearing?
I understand that heat is my friend here.

I wish to take this moment to thank all those out there contributing to my quest.
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brittrunyon screwed with this post 04-19-2013 at 11:58 AM
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:48 AM   #109
Airhead Wrangler
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just be sure to protect the crank nose from getting munged up by the puller. Use a piece of hard plastic or maybe a piece of hard wood with some grease on the puller side of it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:57 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
just be sure to protect the crank nose from getting munged up by the puller. Use a piece of hard plastic or maybe a piece of hard wood with some grease on the puller side of it.
There's a short cap bolt that threads into the crank nose to protect it.
Came with the kit.
Ain't that nice.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:31 PM   #111
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Well, just a simple three jaw puller from Sears works perfectly but . . . .

We are seeing the wear on the teeth. A photo straight on the sprocket minus the ball bearing would work but we are already seeing probably enough wear to replace it. Look at the teeth. On our right side of each tooth is a small chain roller sized indentation on the tooth. Look at the other side for comparison. The teeth should be symmetrical, not asymmetrical.

Buying parts? Just replacing parts? What are you going to do? File the teeth like a set of points! There isn't any fixing or milking of worn chains and sprockets.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:34 PM   #112
Airhead Wrangler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brittrunyon View Post
But clarity can be short lived.
When the sprocket & bearing have been replaced, and the cam & crank are independent (not connected by chain), which gets turned to line up the marks?
It should get timed off your crank with it at TDC. HOWEVER - If you're still 180 degrees out from yesterday, DON'T try to turn your cam sprocket over with the pistons at TDC or you'll ram your valves into the tops of the pistons. IF you need to majorly adjust the position of the cam, turn your crank to get your pistons down at the bottom of the cylinders. Then adjust your cam position to put the dot straight up, then put crank back at tdc and install the chain.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:49 PM   #113
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I have all the parts except the sprocket, so I'm dead in the water at the moment.

Which is good, cause I'm trying to rap my head around this one.

"It should get timed off your crank with it at TDC. HOWEVER - If you're still 180 degrees out from yesterday, DON'T try to turn your cam sprocket over with the pistons at TDC or you'll ram your valves into the tops of the pistons. IF you need to majorly adjust the position of the cam, turn your crank to get your pistons down at the bottom of the cylinders. Then adjust your cam position to put the dot straight up, then put crank back at tdc and install the chain."

I think I'm getting it.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:20 AM   #114
Plaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brittrunyon View Post
I have all the parts except the sprocket, so I'm dead in the water at the moment.

Which is good, cause I'm trying to rap my head around this one.

"It should get timed off your crank with it at TDC. HOWEVER - If you're still 180 degrees out from yesterday, DON'T try to turn your cam sprocket over with the pistons at TDC or you'll ram your valves into the tops of the pistons. IF you need to majorly adjust the position of the cam, turn your crank to get your pistons down at the bottom of the cylinders. Then adjust your cam position to put the dot straight up, then put crank back at tdc and install the chain."

I think I'm getting it.
Trying to turn the cam by hand against the pressure of the valve springs should be interesting...

Didn't you have a TDC on the crank where the factory mark on the cam sprocket was just a tooth off?


We should do this more often, my blood ice cream was precipitously low..
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:05 AM   #115
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First at OT
.........cam mark at 12 o'clock
.........crank mark one tooth to the left



Then rotating (clockwise) to the next OT it became this
........crank mark at 6 o'clock
........cam mark at 5:52



This is where I started having brain farts but I think I'm better now.
My first thought is that the 2nd image is my starting point for setting this bike to the correct time.
.........rotate crank (clockwise) 180 degrees to place pistons at the bottom (mark goes from 6 to 12 o'clock)
.........rotate cam (clockwise) 180 degrees so that dimple is at 12 o'clock
.........rotate crank (clockwise) 180 degrees back to 6 o'clock

In my brain this would set things right.

But why is it that at the first OT the crank mark is not at 6 o'clock?
This seems wrong to me. Perhaps I was not at OT?
A revisit to this scenario is in order.
But I won't be wrenching today.

Your right about rotating the cam against the valve spring pressure.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:38 AM   #116
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You can loosen all the valve setting screws and the cam won't open the valves or push against the springs.

The timing dots on the cam and crank gear do not have to be at TDC. I actually think they are not but I'm not sure. It doesn't really mater if they are. The timing dots on the gears are for setting the gears in relation. You had gears one tooth off. The correct position is indicated by the dots. It doesn't mater if you rotate either gear any number of times before you line these dots up. The gears are timed when the dots are lined up with each other.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:16 PM   #117
brittrunyon OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
You can loosen all the valve setting screws and the cam won't open the valves or push against the springs.

The timing dots on the cam and crank gear do not have to be at TDC. I actually think they are not but I'm not sure. It doesn't really mater if they are. The timing dots on the gears are for setting the gears in relation. You had gears one tooth off. The correct position is indicated by the dots. It doesn't mater if you rotate either gear any number of times before you line these dots up. The gears are timed when the dots are lined up with each other.
Wow, thanks so much for that explanation.
Somehow I had made this a lot more complicated.
It shouldn't be that hard to move either the cam or the crank just one little tooth.............hmmmm
I'll find out tomorrow.
(researching "valve setting screws", didn't even know I had them)
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #118
Plaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brittrunyon View Post
Wow, thanks so much for that explanation.
Somehow I had made this a lot more complicated.
It shouldn't be that hard to move either the cam or the crank just one little tooth.............hmmmm
I'll find out tomorrow.
(researching "valve setting screws", didn't even know I had them)
The fun part is putting the valve setting screws back. Hmmm...is this side on TDC compression or exhaust?
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:40 PM   #119
disston
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Once the chain is not holding the gears together the gears will be easy to move one tooth, or more. There would be resistance from the valve springs only if you were moving very much. Undo the valve setting screws if you have to. It will not be very hard to find TDC for setting the valves.

I hope you do have the spark plugs out?
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:56 AM   #120
brittrunyon OP
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Oh yea the plugs have been out since the beginning of this endeavor.

Yesterday's 4/20 Good Timing.
At the end of the day, riding my GS, 10 feet from the porch, where the bike gets parked, the clutch cable snaps.
Sure glad it didn't happen waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there somewhere in the NM boondocks.
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