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Old 04-21-2013, 09:46 AM   #121
disston
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The only problem to watch out for is having the cam holding any of the valves open and run the piston up against them. This can bend a valve. So don't do that.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:33 AM   #122
Bill Harris
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Why are you turning the crank and cam with the timing chain off? The timing marks were set one tooth off. Set the cam mark at 12:00. Replace the worn crankshaft sprocket, set the crank at TDC, verify that the crank sprocket mark is at 6:00. No need to do all this.

--Bill
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:19 PM   #123
Airhead Wrangler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Why are you turning the crank and cam with the timing chain off? The timing marks were set one tooth off. Set the cam mark at 12:00. Replace the worn crankshaft sprocket, set the crank at TDC, verify that the crank sprocket mark is at 6:00. No need to do all this.

--Bill
Uh, yeah. This got way more complicated than it needed to be.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:24 PM   #124
Bill Harris
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Yeah, that's why I hinted the "airspeed velocity/unladen swallow" a couple of pages back.

Mebbe too subtle...

--Bill
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:39 PM   #125
brittrunyon OP
R 100 GS F 650 GS
 
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Location: The High Desert of New Mexico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Uh, yeah. This got way more complicated than it needed to be.
Tell me about it.

I admit my knowledge base in this "one tooth off" problem is limited & some of the above information was short circuiting my neurons.
I appreciate everyone's input in attempting to help me solve this.
I'm remembering now that it all started because I couldn't rotate the bean can enough to get the timing right.

Thanks Bill, for starting the simplification process.

I should receive the new crank sprocket tomorrow & start back on the project come Tuesday.
.........the cam mark has been sitting at 12 o'clock for a couple of days (I'm not moving it!)
.........I will pull & replace the crank sprocket & bearings
.........set the crank at TDC (the OT mark in the timing window)
.........then "verify" it's mark is at 6 o'clock (which I bet anyone an ice cream it will be)
.........install new chain
.........suture it up & ride

(Still don't know where the "valve setting screws" are & don't want to have to know)
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:46 PM   #126
brittrunyon OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Yeah, that's why I hinted the "airspeed velocity/unladen swallow" a couple of pages back.

Mebbe too subtle...

--Bill
That one went right over my head.

But made me want to watch the movie again.
Maybe tonight.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:15 PM   #127
disston
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Trying to clear the air was what probably started it all. I thought there was mention of hitting the valves on the piston? This is a real concern. If the valves are open and the piston is raised with any speed while the two, cam and crank, are not connected the piston can bend a valve when they hit. There fore the original suggestion to loosen all the valve adjusters. Yes it is true. All you have to do is move one of those gears one tooth and change the crank gear. So I agree maybe the concern about you maybe might move the gears more than needed is over concern but I had these visions of you doing just that because you were talking about doing just that.

Maybe I misunderstood what was said. Wouldn't be the first time.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:07 AM   #128
Plaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brittrunyon View Post
Tell me about it.

I admit my knowledge base in this "one tooth off" problem is limited & some of the above information was short circuiting my neurons.
I appreciate everyone's input in attempting to help me solve this.
I'm remembering now that it all started because I couldn't rotate the bean can enough to get the timing right.

Thanks Bill, for starting the simplification process.

I should receive the new crank sprocket tomorrow & start back on the project come Tuesday.
.........the cam mark has been sitting at 12 o'clock for a couple of days (I'm not moving it!)
.........I will pull & replace the crank sprocket & bearings
.........set the crank at TDC (the OT mark in the timing window)
.........then "verify" it's mark is at 6 o'clock (which I bet anyone an ice cream it will be)
.........install new chain
.........suture it up & ride

(Still don't know where the "valve setting screws" are & don't want to have to know)
You need to know where the valve setting screws are to set the valves.

Buy a set of Go/No-go feeler gauges at the auto parts store. Remove the .004 and .008 blades (even if you have to grind off a rivit to do it). These will be the blades with .004 or .008 at the tip where they are thin. Put the remaining blades away for other projects.

These will give you very accurate settings you can absolutely count on...under any conditions. later they go in the on board toolkit.

New bearings get a wipe then go in a baggie in the freezer overnight.

Never apply force across the rolling elements of a bearing. Always put the force on the race presenting the friction only. Save old bearings; gutted they make nice bearing and seal pressing tools.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:50 AM   #129
brittrunyon OP
R 100 GS F 650 GS
 
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Joined: Oct 2010
Location: The High Desert of New Mexico
Oddometer: 468
All is as it should be!
I've once more relearned the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle.
With the newly acquired puller, well worth the $, the crank sprocket & bearings slid right off. The key was in place, in good shape and not an off set as someone had suggested.
Now installing the new sprocket was not as brainless.
.........it took 20 minutes in a preheated oven at 250 degrees
.........with the sprocket in a bowl of oil
.........good thing the wife was gone & didn't see what I was cooking in her oven



It didn't slide very far onto the cold shaft & the hard part was lining up the key with the slot on the sprocket.
It took a little more force than I thought it would to seat the sprocket in it's proper position using a brass cylinder and hammer, especially the last 1/4 inch.
Used the newly purchased bearing press, which made it a breeze.



Turning the crank one tooth was as easy as turning the crank one tooth.
.......it all lined up & the crank was at TDC



I found it necessary to install the tensioner spring & having my third hand hold it back, then put on the chain.
........covered the crank case hole first
........slid the old master link into the new chain from the front
........installed the new master link from the other side
........Voila!
........rotated all a few times & all felt good



Then came the "buttoning up"
......remembered the 2 little donut gaskets at the last minute
......remembered the wiring
......remembered to put oil in

It fired right up & timed "correctly" with a very steady OT mark in the window & advanced to "Z" at 3500 rpm.
Wow I think I did it.
Now to finish the buttoning up and a ride.
Suppose to be 75 degrees today!

Again, I have to thank those who contributed to this thread.

Oh, one more photo of my awesome New Mexico Style work space (could be worse).

__________________
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2007 F 650 GS

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brittrunyon screwed with this post 04-25-2013 at 07:56 AM
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:58 AM   #130
chasbmw
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Many congrats, I hope you enjoy the first ride, but remember the double checking first!

I wish it was 75F here, I have fond memories of camping at Gila national monument (?) back in the 80s.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:04 AM   #131
brittrunyon OP
R 100 GS F 650 GS
 
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Location: The High Desert of New Mexico
Oddometer: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
You need to know where the valve setting screws are to set the valves.

Buy a set of Go/No-go feeler gauges at the auto parts store. Remove the .004 and .008 blades (even if you have to grind off a rivit to do it). These will be the blades with .004 or .008 at the tip where they are thin. Put the remaining blades away for other projects.

These will give you very accurate settings you can absolutely count on...under any conditions. later they go in the on board toolkit.

New bearings get a wipe then go in a baggie in the freezer overnight.

Never apply force across the rolling elements of a bearing. Always put the force on the race presenting the friction only. Save old bearings; gutted they make nice bearing and seal pressing tools.
Thanks for the tip but I have already the feeler gauges, I use then for the GS.
I think my confusion here is the phrase "valve setting screws".
When I adjust my valves there are no "screws", at least not what I would call a screw.
Saving the bearings.......Oh heck I save everything.
I'm a recovering hoarder.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:10 AM   #132
Airhead Wrangler
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Nice! Get out for a ride. I'm betting that bike will really wake up now that the cam is timed correctly. Enjoy!
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Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:37 AM   #133
Bill Harris
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Uh, closer, but you're still 1/2 tooth off...

Just kidding, it looks good. The bike will run much better.

Go ride.

Enjoy.

--Bill
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:42 AM   #134
Plaka
Brevis illi vita est
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Oddometer: 4,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by brittrunyon View Post
All is as it should be!
I've once more relearned the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle.
With the newly acquired puller, well worth the $, the crank sprocket & bearings slid right off. The key was in place, in good shape and not an off set as someone had suggested.
Now installing the new sprocket was not as brainless.
.........it took 20 minutes in a preheated oven at 250 degrees
.........with the sprocket in a bowl of oil
.........good thing the wife was gone & didn't see what I was cooking in her oven



It didn't slide very far onto the cold shaft & the hard part was lining up the key with the slot on the sprocket.
It took a little more force than I thought it would to seat the sprocket in it's proper position using a brass cylinder and hammer, especially the last 1/4 inch.
Used the newly purchased bearing press, which made it a breeze.



Turning the crank one tooth was as easy as turning the crank one tooth.
.......it all lined up & the crank was at TDC



I found it necessary to install the tensioner spring & having my third hand hold it back, then put on the chain.
........covered the crank case hole first
........slid the old master link into the new chain from the front
........installed the new master link from the other side
........Voila!
........rotated all a few times & all felt good



Then came the "buttoning up"
......remembered the 2 little donut gaskets at the last minute
......remembered the wiring
......remembered to put oil in

It fired right up & timed "correctly" with a very steady OT mark in the window & advanced to "Z" at 3500 rpm.
Wow I think I did it.
Now to finish the buttoning up and a ride.
Suppose to be 75 degrees today!

Again, I have to thank those who contributed to this thread.

Oh, one more photo of my awesome New Mexico Style work space (could be worse).

Put front wheel back on before taking it for a spin, right?

When you say it timed correctly, was the bean can bolt about mid slot?

Sounding like another successful build!
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:18 AM   #135
supershaft
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Many bean cans time correctly with the can being far from centered. Don't worry about that!

Timed correctly? Not as you describe it. The S mark should be centered on the mark and then go up to the Z mark. Your bike will run a lot better yet when you get the idle timing advanced to 6 degrees. You do that by trail and error bending the advance weight stops IN and then resetting the timing on one mark or the other and seeing where you are at the other end of the curve. It takes a few tries usually. You can do it all with the can on the bike and keep the tabs as even as they ever were by using the bean can as a reference as you spin your engine over. The tabs are very malleable and bend back and forth very easily. I would guess that about half the bean cans out there need this adjustment for best performance.
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