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Old 04-20-2013, 07:48 AM   #16
Umarth OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
It could still be the battery. A dead cell will still register 12v. Put a voltmeter to the battery and then crank the starter motor and look at the voltage reading. If it drops dramatically, then the battery is toast. It should maintain its voltage readings even while cranking the engine over.
What would be considered as an unacceptable voltage drop? 11v? 8v?
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:48 AM   #17
Kawidad
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Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
What would be considered as an unacceptable voltage drop? 11v? 8v?
Yes to both. It should maintain around 12v when starting. It should read around 14v when static or running and charging. I know it's a 12v battery, but they should read higher in the above conditions. I'm not an electrical expert, just learned the hard way.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:51 PM   #18
Umarth OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
Yes to both. It should maintain around 12v when starting. It should read around 14v when static or running and charging. I know it's a 12v battery, but they should read higher in the above conditions. I'm not an electrical expert, just learned the hard way.
Looks like might very well have been the issue!
When I used the car battery I wasn't very confident about the jumper cables I used but did't take the time to check them out. Well, I went back and tested them for continuity and it looks like the negative cable is broken and offers infinite restance.

So I made a set of jumper cables using 220v house heating wires and re-attempted it with the car battery. Engine started right up! Hopefully I can get my hands on a new battery this week and I can validate that that's that.

Quite happy to see that I did not f'up something during reassembly...


now, during my trying to figure out why it would not start and reading possible solutions on this site, I have two questions that I'd really like an answer to:
  1. What exactly does the starter Sprague clutch do? What's it purpose?
  2. I get how the manual decomp works, but I can't say the same for the auto-decomp. How does it do it's work. And more importantly, how could it fail to do it??
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:16 PM   #19
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post


now, during my trying to figure out why it would not start and reading possible solutions on this site, I have two questions that I'd really like an answer to:
  1. What exactly does the starter Sprague clutch do? What's it purpose?
  2. I get how the manual decomp works, but I can't say the same for the auto-decomp. How does it do it's work. And more importantly, how could it fail to do it??
1. It lets the starter gear drive the crank when starting & disengages when not starting.

There's some little pawls that throw out against a spring to engage on the back of the rotor on the crank. Common setup on a lot of bikes & a common thing to wear out on a lot of bikes. The 640's one often wears out at around the 50k km mark. But you have a kickstarter so it ain't a big deal.

2. At low revs the thin cam that fits over the top of that worn pin in your earlier pic of your camshaft engages & opens the valves so you or the starter have less compression to work against. With the pin worn it doesn't work so well but you have a manual decomp also so just pull that in, get 'er spinnin then let it out, no big deal.

Cheers
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
1. It lets the starter gear drive the crank when starting & disengages when not starting.

There's some little pawls that throw out against a spring to engage on the back of the rotor on the crank. Common setup on a lot of bikes & a common thing to wear out on a lot of bikes. The 640's one often wears out at around the 50k km mark. But you have a kickstarter so it ain't a big deal.

2. At low revs the thin cam that fits over the top of that worn pin in your earlier pic of your camshaft engages & opens the valves so you or the starter have less compression to work against. With the pin worn it doesn't work so well but you have a manual decomp also so just pull that in, get 'er spinnin then let it out, no big deal.

Cheers
Clint
Cristal clear explanation! Brilliant!
Thanks!!
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:56 PM   #21
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Hey Umarth,

Glad to see you clearing up the electrical issues!

How is the planning part of your trip going? Have you got a route in mind yet? When are you planning on leaving?
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CSF View Post
Hey Umarth,

Glad to see you clearing up the electrical issues!

How is the planning part of your trip going? Have you got a route in mind yet? When are you planning on leaving?
My contract ends on may 31st, so if the bike does not throw me any curve balls till then, I should be off 1st weekend of June.


As for a route, I only have two things planned out so far:
  1. Crossing canada on as much of the TCAT as is possible. My only concern is the bike as I've done a lot on it (for a newb) so my confidence level is still low. But I'm sure that will go up. Should be taking it out for a good beeting out on the trails may 4th.
  2. The second, I need to be in bogota by sept. 15th as a budy of mine is shipping his bike to join me on the road to terra del fuego.
Other than that, I know I'll be passing into mexico city to see friends. I would like to spend a month in Merida (yukatan). But I also want to see yukon and alaska so I'll have to make a choice between the two when I get to BC.

If possible, but I have yet to look into it, I would like to cross the US by trails but I'm not clear on how to do it. There is the continental devide trail but haven't researched it.

I also hope to hit trails in mexico as much possible but my problem is, I have no clue where they are. So that might not happen. Will see as things develop.

I'm also trying to recruite people for the TCAT portion of it. :)
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:53 PM   #23
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Suspension and electrical

I've read here and there that it's a good thing to change your suspension oil once in a while and I figured that was the perfect excuse for me to rip open my forks (had the rear shock done by a pro shop and upgraded the rear spring from a 70kg to a 80kg to compensate for the aprox 40-50lbs of luggage).

I was quite supprise at how easy it is to work on the WP forks. Well, the 2006 model anyway. There is almost nothing in them. The only "hard" part was dismantling the lower section as there is nothing to keep the ss shaft from turning. Ended up wrapping it in rubber and butting that in a vice:



And for those who have yet to breaks their forks open, this is what you'll find in them:


And if yours are as dirty as mine where, before I cleaned it, you could see something lile this to:


But I was lucky in that it was just gunk and it all cleanup up real nice:



While I was there I also replaced the seals and dust caps. Didn't have the official tool to pound the seal back in but I found that a peace of PCV pipe cut in half & trimed a bit at the proper places worked like a charm. I also did not have the official tool to glide the seal onto the fork tube, so I just cut open a can of Coka Cola and wrapped the fork with it, greased it a smige and slid the seals over it. All in all, 1.59$ instead of 50$ and a week or two of delay to get the tools shipped.

With that done, I turned to the electrical...

First thing I wanted was a remote fuse block (not enought free space under the seat to my liking) and I browsed alot before deciding on getting the twisted throttle PowerHub fuse block.



That ended up being a mistake. On paper, that thing is sweet and actual does have all the right features. Where it falls short is when you actually come to connect the wires to it. All the positive wires are on one side of the block, and the grounds on the other. This forces your wires to split early and makes a mess as far a wire routing goes. But I could live with that. What, IMO, is the deal breaker is that their is no support for the wire sheating.What this has as a concequence is that the wires tend to make sharp angles at the junction with the box and outside of the wires rubber sheath. What happens is that the wires tend to fray and break at the weak point because they are not supported.

You can see it here, though I've routed the wires very loosly so as to attempt to minimize the sharp bends:



I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. For sure, if I keep this fuse block, I'm gonna move all the ground connections directly onto the "ground bar" that acts as a brace for the cock pit extention that I added. I'm also thinking of just junking it just amd making my own relay activated fuse box. Really, will depend on how much time I have for "nice to haves" before I leave. But one things is certain, at the moment: this wiring setup is weak IMO and will be prone to breaking and just generaly pissing me off during the trip and will need to be addressed at some point.

Bit aside from that, I'm rather happy with the electrical. I would of liked for the wires to be tidier but in the end I opted for longuer wires so that I can moved things arounds easalier without having to disconnect everything.

I'll pick up a label printer this week and next week will label each wire with a number that can be referenced on my wiring diagram (that I have yet to draw up of course :) )

So, here is a view of the cockpit, minus the GPS unit that I have yet to build a support for:







The buttons are:
  • The round stainless steel between the gauges, is the cut off switch for the fuse block.
  • The rubber botted switch on the right side is the octane selector. I'm still on the fence on that one. I might end up relocating it behide the flap of the extended "cockpit" panel, to prevent accidental triggering it. Dunno, will see with usage.
  • The left most switch is for enabling both head lights at the same time. Since space is at a premium, instead of used an extra relay to support this feature, I just used a diod to connect the high and lo via this switch.
  • At the moment, the second from the left is the kill switch for the HID head lights. I'm not happy with this as I like things to be automated. What I'm gonna do, once my battery is replaced, is try to use a 14v zener diod instead of a manual switch. This will free up a realy and autoamticaly (at least thats the idea) turn on the joice to the head light relays only once the engine is actually running. This will work only if the battery, when engine is off, has a voltage of less that 14v and that the voltage rises to 13.9v or more when engine is running.
  • The 3rd switch from the left is for the heated grips.
  • Just to the left of the left most switch, is a led indicator of the battery condition. Color coded: green = 12v or more, yellow = 11.6v or more, red = less than 11.6.
  • You can se peeking out on the left side, I have a battery conection that can be used to charge the battery. Dont think I could use it to boost it.
One big problem I had was figuring out just where to place those bulky balasts for the HID'. Well, turns out that strapping them directly to the cockpit's plate works just fine, as can be seen here:
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:45 PM   #24
bmwktmbill
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Umarth,
Really nice electrical work, impressive actually.

Did you fuse the hi and low beam relays separately? I think that's really important so that you don't lose all your lights in the case of a failure. That strategy has saved me several times.

What is the brand of battery voltage indicator are you using?

I'll be riding from Wisconsin to the west coast of Washington of the USA some time in June but through the USA.

Any electrical problems/etc. just drop to Wisconsin down through the Sault Ste Marie and stop in.

bill
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:48 PM   #25
Umarth OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
Umarth,
Really nice electrical work, impressive actually.

Did you fuse the hi and low beam relays separately? I think that's really important so that you don't lose all your lights in the case of a failure. That strategy has saved me several times.

What is the brand of battery voltage indicator are you using?

I'll be riding from Wisconsin to the west coast of Washington of the USA some time in June but through the USA.

Any electrical problems/etc. just drop to Wisconsin down through the Sault Ste Marie and stop in.

bill
At the moment, both hi & lo are using the same fuse. The reasoning being I'm don't know yet just how many fused slots I'll be needing plus I hadn't really thought about the blowing both light out the same time concequence. I'll take care of that. thanks.

The voltage level led I have is from twisted throttle. It's very compact, and when tested against the volt meter seems spot on. But I haven't tested in extreme cold or extreme heat, so who knows how it's behave. But the price was right and it's not a critical peace any way.When a battery starts to fade you useually feel it before it quits. Here's the link for those interested:
http://www.twistedthrottle.com/elect...lush-mount-kit

How long will you be staying in washington?
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #26
bmwktmbill
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Hey Umarth,
Used this one for years, it is accurate and has saved me a couple of times.

http://signaldynamics.com/index.php/...id=44&vmcchk=1

I'll probably be in Washington a couple of weeks, Plan to stay in Blane, WA which is right on the border as in the border runs thru the town...got a good friend there that shelters travelers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaine,_Washington.

BTW I have friends in Minnesota and Montana who have done the SA to TDF trip should you want more info(I have too). plus we rode the Yukon to the Arctic Circle on the Dempster Highway. It's a better ride than the Haul Road in Alaska to the Circle.

Maybe ride up to Vancouver Island to get a dose of the Pacific or Cape Flattery, Neah bay

http://northolympic.com/files/capefl...ail/index.html

bill
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:02 AM   #27
Umarth OP
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Installed new battery and it fired right up! Hurrah!!
Took it for a ride and noticed a few things that need tweaking. :(
  1. No power! Opening up the throttle pass 50% gives no power and wot feels like a power drop. I'm thinking the float height is wrong? Could it be the a/f ratio? At the moment it's 2 1/2 turns out from full in. Chock cable seems to be routed properly, but could IT also be reason?
  2. temperature indicates 4 bars, even at 70kph and 10deg Celsius. Can't remember if that ok or if I f'ck up something relative to the water pump.
  3. the base gasket of the cylinder is weeping oil when engine is cold. I imagine it's because I didn't torque it down properly. No surprise as my torque wrench simply would not fit into the recess for torqueing the not. Anyway, I'm wondering, is this a sign that I over torqued or under torqued it? When I did it, I used my torque wrench on an other bolt to give me a reference so I should be in the ballpark.
Other than that, runs nice and steady.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:35 AM   #28
thumperbuddy
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Apormc?

Is that an Awesome Players Sticker on your fairing? I see you live near Motoriley in Quebec...
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:36 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
Installed new battery and it fired right up! Hurrah!!
Took it for a ride and noticed a few things that need tweaking. :(
  1. No power! Opening up the throttle pass 50% gives no power and wot feels like a power drop. I'm thinking the float height is wrong? Could it be the a/f ratio? At the moment it's 2 1/2 turns out from full in. Chock cable seems to be routed properly, but could IT also be reason?
  2. temperature indicates 4 bars, even at 70kph and 10deg Celsius. Can't remember if that ok or if I f'ck up something relative to the water pump.
  3. the base gasket of the cylinder is weeping oil when engine is cold. I imagine it's because I didn't torque it down properly. No surprise as my torque wrench simply would not fit into the recess for torqueing the not. Anyway, I'm wondering, is this a sign that I over torqued or under torqued it? When I did it, I used my torque wrench on an other bolt to give me a reference so I should be in the ballpark.
Other than that, runs nice and steady.
1.Can you take it to a shop with a dyno?
2. Mines runs at 4 bars and has had no problems(actually i think that is what its supposed to be)
3.Think you,ve answered your own question.
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:46 PM   #30
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Apormc

Umarth is in a lot of our 2011 videos on his white F800GS. Still have to edit the 2012 stuff. I think I have one ride where he is on the 640 that is still in the editing stage.

Quote:
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Is that an Awesome Players Sticker on your fairing? I see you live near Motoriley in Quebec...
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