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Old 05-03-2013, 04:50 AM   #46
Motoriley
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Carb

Hi Motoriley here. Umrah and I didn't solve the KTMs poor running yesterday but we still had some fun...I don't remember seeing that top nylon washer, or is it stuck to the end of the spring?


I also like the idea of bypassing the fuel pump with a rigged up gravity feed tank. When we pulled the black plastic slide it had a white sticky residue on it...


On the bright side we had pulled the CV carb out of our buddies DR the other day and with the new FCR carb it is running amazingly well...the clutch we changed however is really dragging...




Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
The clip should be sandwiched between 2 nylon washers as follows: top nylon washer, then the clip, then the bottom nylon washer, then the steel washer and then the slide...
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:12 AM   #47
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoriley View Post
Hi Motoriley here. Umrah and I didn't solve the KTMs poor running yesterday but we still had some fun...I don't remember seeing that top nylon washer, or is it stuck to the end of the spring?


I also like the idea of bypassing the fuel pump with a rigged up gravity feed tank. When we pulled the black plastic slide it had a white sticky residue on it...


On the bright side we had pulled the CV carb out of our buddies DR the other day and with the new FCR carb it is running amazingly well...the clutch we changed however is really dragging...
Was the old clutch worn out?

Did you soak the new plates in lube before installing? Also with a new clutch you may need to set the push rod exposure by using the adjustment nut in the center of the rod, the exposure is measured where it comes out through the shaft end to contact the slave piston ball...
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:12 AM   #48
Umarth OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
The clip should be sandwiched between 2 nylon washers as follows: top nylon washer, then the clip, then the bottom nylon washer, then the steel washer and then the slide...
Yup, just double checked:
1. Washer/bushing that the spring goes over
2. The clip
3. Nylon washer
4. Steel washer against the slide
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:16 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
Was the old clutch worn out?

Did you soak the new plates in lube before installing? Also with a new clutch you may need to set the push rod exposure by using the adjustment nut in the center of the rod, the exposure is measured where it comes out through the shaft end to contact the slave piston ball...
The dragging clutch was on the DR, not the 640. Thank god, otherwise I'd be ready to set fire to the bike... ;)

And, at the time of reassembly, they didn't know that you where suppose to soak them in lube first. Could that be why it drags?
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:21 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
When riding if you open the choke at WOT or at 3/4 throttle what happens?

There is also a washer on the fuel screw to protect the o-ring from the spring.

With the engine off can you raise the slide completely with your finger?

I think you should post your problem here...Mikuni BST40 bible thread.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...ghlight=mikuni

Derek is a very sharp guy

bill
I just now tried putting on the choke at wot, does absolutely nothing. What would be the normal behaviour?

Not sure I understand what you mean by 'rise the slide by hand'? With the crab installed and pulling it from the top? Yup, no restriction is felt.

Good idea, I'll try the bst bible thread...
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:01 PM   #51
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F WORD moment...

Looks like I might have f'd up quite nicely when I rebuilt the engine...

When I tore down the engine, I remember that when I locked the crank shaft with the bolt, when I looked through the bolt hole, the part of the crank shaft that I was seeing was rough; had not been machined, just the rough texture of a casting.

So today I decided that it was time to re-check the valves and first thing was to find tdc-c and slide in the lock bolt on the crank shaft. I guess I did it more precisely cause his time, when looking in the bolt hole, it could clearly see a nicely machined slot in which the lock bolt's tip would fit into it.

If I turn the crank shaft just a bit I come to the rough region that I saw the first time.

So, since I removed the cam shaft and then replaced it with the locking bolt in the wrong place, I'm guessing that the indexing mark/dot on the timing chain sprocket was not properly aligned with the cylinder's top? Which placed the timing chain a tooth forward or backward?.

Does this make sense? And would that explain the shit performance I'm experiencing?

I'm asking cause taking the rocket cover off puts the bike off line for 3 days to let the liquid gasket dry.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
Looks like I might have f'd up quite nicely when I rebuilt the engine...

When I tore down the engine, I remember that when I locked the crank shaft with the bolt, when I looked through the bolt hole, the part of the crank shaft that I was seeing was rough; had not been machined, just the rough texture of a casting.

So today I decided that it was time to re-check the valves and first thing was to find tdc-c and slide in the lock bolt on the crank shaft. I guess I did it more precisely cause his time, when looking in the bolt hole, it could clearly see a nicely machined slot in which the lock bolt's tip would fit into it.

If I turn the crank shaft just a bit I come to the rough region that I saw the first time.

So, since I removed the cam shaft and then replaced it with the locking bolt in the wrong place, I'm guessing that the indexing mark/dot on the timing chain sprocket was not properly aligned with the cylinder's top? Which placed the timing chain a tooth forward or backward?.

Does this make sense? And would that explain the shit performance I'm experiencing?

I'm asking cause taking the rocket cover off puts the bike off line for 3 days to let the liquid gasket dry.
Yes, from what your describing your valve timing will be off and will cause a power loss...
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:43 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
Looks like I might have f'd up quite nicely when I rebuilt the engine...

When I tore down the engine, I remember that when I locked the crank shaft with the bolt, when I looked through the bolt hole, the part of the crank shaft that I was seeing was rough; had not been machined, just the rough texture of a casting.

So today I decided that it was time to re-check the valves and first thing was to find tdc-c and slide in the lock bolt on the crank shaft. I guess I did it more precisely cause his time, when looking in the bolt hole, it could clearly see a nicely machined slot in which the lock bolt's tip would fit into it.

If I turn the crank shaft just a bit I come to the rough region that I saw the first time.

So, since I removed the cam shaft and then replaced it with the locking bolt in the wrong place, I'm guessing that the indexing mark/dot on the timing chain sprocket was not properly aligned with the cylinder's top? Which placed the timing chain a tooth forward or backward?.

Does this make sense? And would that explain the shit performance I'm experiencing?

I'm asking cause taking the rocket cover off puts the bike off line for 3 days to let the liquid gasket dry.
You bet it could give you shit performance!!

Start over..........set the crank to TDC, if you use the locating bolt make sure it's in the correct hole..........and recheck and/or reset the timing of the cam!

Thanks for keeping us updated!
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:36 AM   #54
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That did the trick

End's up I started the bike yesteday morning cause I decided,in a flash of stupidity, that I would not let this little misshap cancel the first offroad ride of the season with the boddies. The gasket got 10 hours to cure thats plenty of time! Well, in my made up world anyway...

6am... Time to start the bike as I have to leave for the ride in 30 min!

The bike started right up and sounded infinitly better! Much less claking coming from the engine. Let it run a bit and then hopped on it for a quick spin to see if the power was back. AND IT IS! Runs great now! Even the vibs are down!

After 5min of riding I declared the bike fit for duty (I know I know), doned the protective gear and headed off for a gorgeous day of realy nice off roading.

And we come the the next chapter of this bike; once the engine is fully warmed up, if I shut off the engine and try to start it again, the engine turns but just wont start. Doesn't even give a hint of wanting to start. Let it cool for a bit (depending on how hot it is, can take more or less time) and then it will start, sometimes with the help of turning the throttle a bit.

Here are the few things I tried to identify the issue:
- Dont touch anything and just hit start: no go when hot.
- In multiple increments, turned on the chke/enricher: no help.
- Turned in the fuel screw about a half turn: no help.

Any ideas? First thing on my list is gonna be to read through the whole BST bibble thread...

I thought just crossed my mind: it did not occur to me to try and start the bike with the kick-starter. If the starter sprag clutch where to be on it's way out, would this be a simptom? Not working properly when hot?

And a side note: this bike is realy awesome! And after having freshened up the suspension, the handling is incredible! Last year, I loved it in the trails, but not somuch in the twisties. Now? Shit, feels just as good in the twisties as my old f800gs.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:02 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
End's up I started the bike yesteday morning cause I decided,in a flash of stupidity, that I would not let this little misshap cancel the first offroad ride of the season with the boddies. The gasket got 10 hours to cure thats plenty of time! Well, in my made up world anyway...

6am... Time to start the bike as I have to leave for the ride in 30 min!

The bike started right up and sounded infinitly better! Much less claking coming from the engine. Let it run a bit and then hopped on it for a quick spin to see if the power was back. AND IT IS! Runs great now! Even the vibs are down!

After 5min of riding I declared the bike fit for duty (I know I know), doned the protective gear and headed off for a gorgeous day of realy nice off roading.

And we come the the next chapter of this bike; once the engine is fully warmed up, if I shut off the engine and try to start it again, the engine turns but just wont start. Doesn't even give a hint of wanting to start. Let it cool for a bit (depending on how hot it is, can take more or less time) and then it will start, sometimes with the help of turning the throttle a bit.

Here are the few things I tried to identify the issue:
- Dont touch anything and just hit start: no go when hot.
- In multiple increments, turned on the chke/enricher: no help.
- Turned in the fuel screw about a half turn: no help.

Any ideas? First thing on my list is gonna be to read through the whole BST bibble thread...

I thought just crossed my mind: it did not occur to me to try and start the bike with the kick-starter. If the starter sprag clutch where to be on it's way out, would this be a simptom? Not working properly when hot?

And a side note: this bike is realy awesome! And after having freshened up the suspension, the handling is incredible! Last year, I loved it in the trails, but not somuch in the twisties. Now? Shit, feels just as good in the twisties as my old f800gs.
If the sprague clutch slips then the engine will not turn fast enough to generate a good spark...So yes try the kicker and see if it starts better, it is good practice to get used to the kickstarting technique so you have it down...

When my engine sits between cold and hot, I find it starts best if I have the choke on as I press the starter button and then quickly swing it off as the starter is turning... When it is fully warmed it starts instantly with no pause...
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:48 AM   #56
Droptarotter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
End's up I started the bike yesteday morning cause I decided,in a flash of stupidity, that I would not let this little misshap cancel the first offroad ride of the season with the boddies. The gasket got 10 hours to cure thats plenty of time! Well, in my made up world anyway...

6am... Time to start the bike as I have to leave for the ride in 30 min!

The bike started right up and sounded infinitly better! Much less claking coming from the engine. Let it run a bit and then hopped on it for a quick spin to see if the power was back. AND IT IS! Runs great now! Even the vibs are down!

After 5min of riding I declared the bike fit for duty (I know I know), doned the protective gear and headed off for a gorgeous day of realy nice off roading.

And we come the the next chapter of this bike; once the engine is fully warmed up, if I shut off the engine and try to start it again, the engine turns but just wont start. Doesn't even give a hint of wanting to start. Let it cool for a bit (depending on how hot it is, can take more or less time) and then it will start, sometimes with the help of turning the throttle a bit.

Here are the few things I tried to identify the issue:
- Dont touch anything and just hit start: no go when hot.
- In multiple increments, turned on the chke/enricher: no help.
- Turned in the fuel screw about a half turn: no help.

Any ideas? First thing on my list is gonna be to read through the whole BST bibble thread...

I thought just crossed my mind: it did not occur to me to try and start the bike with the kick-starter. If the starter sprag clutch where to be on it's way out, would this be a simptom? Not working properly when hot?

And a side note: this bike is realy awesome! And after having freshened up the suspension, the handling is incredible! Last year, I loved it in the trails, but not somuch in the twisties. Now? Shit, feels just as good in the twisties as my old f800gs.
How fresh is your battery? The battery might be ok to crank the bike, but not have enough juice to let it fire.
If it starts with the kicker...........the battery could be your problem??
Funny it would start it when cold, but you never know???????

Hope that helps?
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:32 PM   #57
Umarth OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droptarotter View Post
How fresh is your battery? The battery might be ok to crank the bike, but not have enough juice to let it fire.
If it starts with the kicker...........the battery could be your problem??
Funny it would start it when cold, but you never know???????

Hope that helps?
Battery is a week old and manufacturing date is jan 2013 so I'm guessing it's good. Plus my new battery charger/tester says the battery is tip top.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:46 PM   #58
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Based on your description of the symptoms (especially the parts about being hard to start while hot and that giving it some throttle sometimes helps) I would be putting my money on the starter sprague clutch being on its way out. I had a very similar experience and hunted for the cause for a long time, thinking it was somehow carb-related. Finally gave in and changed out the sprague and all was well.

-T
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:39 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tseta View Post
Based on your description of the symptoms (especially the parts about being hard to start while hot and that giving it some throttle sometimes helps) I would be putting my money on the starter sprague clutch being on its way out. I had a very similar experience and hunted for the cause for a long time, thinking it was somehow carb-related. Finally gave in and changed out the sprague and all was well.

-T
I most have had a premonition as last week I ordered one, figuring might as well do it before leave. So, next week end all know for sure.

And if it is the clutch, would the kickstarter be also affected it or would it function properly?
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:36 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
I most have had a premonition as last week I ordered one, figuring might as well do it before leave. So, next week end all know for sure.

And if it is the clutch, would the kickstarter be also affected it or would it function properly?
No, the kickstart is a totally different system than the E-start, it is a leftover from the original kickstart only LC 4 engines...

To change out the sprague you will need a flywheel puller and also come up with a method to hold the engine from turning over under the high torque of the flywheel nut... The crank locking bolt is not the method to use as it will damage the crank webs... What I have done is to put the bike in a higher gear and use an air impact to free the nut {opposite thread, clockwise loosens}... And when it comes to tightening use a torque wrench and have someone step on the rear brake as you torque the nut...

Another way to do it is to use a pin wrench similar to what Tseta has used to fit the locking holes in the back of the flywheel and hold it from turning while torquing... To do this method you will need to remove the inner flywheel cover to get at it...
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