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Old 04-13-2013, 01:51 PM   #61
my3sons59 OP
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Thank you for your reply, but I respectfully disagree that discussions like this are BS. I enjoy hearing what others consider to be the pros & cons on different models, and IMO, this is one of the best ways to learn and arm myself with the information that I need to make an informed decision on which bike to purchase that will best fit my preferences & riding style.

And, when you (and others) say, "just go ride them"...well, that's easier said than done, especially when you don't live in a huge metro area. Since I live in rural Lousiana, for me to rent ANY of the bikes on my short list (Yamaha, BMW, Triumph, Moto Guzzi), I would have to drive hundreds of miles or fly to the few places that actually rent these models. Yes, there are dealers scattered all over the US, but few who actually rent them. Furthermore, since the closest dealers (except for Yamaha) are hundreds of miles from where I live, I need to be extra I don't end up with a bike that requires extensive dealer support. I don't have the time or patience to be hauling a dead bike hundreds of miles to be serviced. So...until I'm able to rent-n-ride, I'll continue to glean what I can from helpful forums like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
I'm sorry to throw that out and please don't get me wrong but for me this discussion becomes kind of ridiculous ...

Somebody you don't know, have never seen, never ridden with regrets or doesn't regret selling or buying a bike means anything for you? "Horror stories" are around for everything and everybody. You just have to search long enough and believe in all the nay-sayers on the Web. You know "it's on the Web, it has to be true" ...

Man up, go to the dealers, ride the frigging bikes and buy what you like. A cable, a manual, or a Harmonizer are all peanuts compared to the price of the bike. Just plan for "additions" you will want to have anyways sooner or later.

These bikes all work pretty damn well, shaft or chain, twin or triple, v or boxer or inline, it all doesn't matter one single bit if you don't like riding it.

All this theorizing is total BS and will not get you anywhere near a decision that'll make you happy while riding. It might help you "justify buying something" but if that's what you want, buy a Prius. Or a Leaf. Because if that's all you go by you'll end up whining about everything that isn't absolutely 100% perfect for you on the bike you'll end up with - if you buy specs and not the riding experience you like, every single niggling thing will drive you nuts.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:24 PM   #62
pluric
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Well I now have empathy for anyone trying to decide on a new bike. I tend to pretty
much now what I want and just go get it. Not being in the market right now I'm not
stressing over anything. All these comments of how "lucky we are to have all the choices"
hit me today. Went on a slab ride with some people I've never met. GS800, Triumph 800XC,
GS 1200, RT1200 and my Tenere. Lucky for me they were curious about the Tenere and
willing to do some extended bike swapping. I kept thinking about these threads on chosing
a bike and rode theirs like I was going to chose one.

Man it's not that easy. Liked the lighter weight of the 800s. GS was too plush for me.
Bottomed out easy. Nice mid range power, out of breath around 100 miles an hour.
Liked the ergos.

The Triumph does have the motor everyone keeps talking about. Kinda reminded me of
my FZ1. Great sound, smooth and impressive top end. Hated the high pitch whine.
Ergos were like being a passenger on a sport bike. Pegs are quite high. Nice firm suspension.
Seemed to be a sport standard with a 21 inch front wheel. But oh that motor.

I've been on the RT and big GS before and did not trade. Both exceptional rides.

At the end of the day I was happy I didn't have to chose one to buy. I was fine to get
back on the Tenere and do not regret that purchase at all.

There sure are a lot of great choices out there. Explains the need for an extra garage.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:47 PM   #63
JohnG.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
I’m 50+ & considering my first adventure bike. I’ve ridden a Goldwing for years (which I'll most likely keep...unless the adv bike completely satisfies), but I want a bike that provides more opportunities for exploring back roads. I estimate that 80% (or more) of my riding will be on pavement, and the other 20% will be on relatively decent dirt/gravel rural roads. Only occasionally will I have a rider on back (less than 2% of the time). I like to take meticulous care of my bikes & keep them washed & polished, but at the same time, I’m not afraid to get them (temporarily) dusty or dirty while exploring. So, having said that, I’m not the kind of rider that’s going to be taking my bike down through the woods on narrow trails or slopping through the swamp with mud up to the axles…just the occasional pot-hole riddled dirt or gravel road…and, if I’m lucky, maybe a trip from the deep south where I live to Prudhoe Bay or some other once-in-a-lifetime dream trip like that. With that in mind, here’s my must-have (or what I feel are must-haves) list:

* Relatively large motor (1000+ cc)
* Relatively large bike
* Shaft-drive
* Electronic cruise control, if possible (the Goldwing spoiled me!)
* “Lazy Boy” comfortable seat
* Butter smooth engine with no handlebar buzz or vibrating mirrors
* Very predictable off-road manners
* Bullet proof & "stupid" reliability/dependability. Other than routine maintenance, I, basically, want to put gas in it & RIDE. No valve adjustments, no taking it to the dealer, or crap like that.

Here are some of the bikes that I’ve considered, but most have been eliminated because they don’t meet the criteria on my wish list:

* Triumph XC: I hear it has a s-m-o-o-t-h engine, but it was eliminated because it has chain drive & a relatively small engine (although I probably could have learned to live with the 800 engine).
* Ducati MS: probably too fast/zippy for an ole fart like me (although I would welcome the opportunity to learn to live with that :-)), but eliminated because I read that Ducati has spotty reliability
* Triumph Explorer: once again, smooth & revvy engine, but I read that it sucks off road…way too front heavy…front bogs down…goes where it wants to
* Moto Guzzi Stelvio: I read several reviews, and it sounded great…until I read that it vibrates like a son-of-a-gun. Handlebars vibrate so bad that your hands go numb, and mirrors vibrate so bad that they’re worthless
* KTM 990: chain drive
* BMW GS/GSA: THIS WAS MY TOP CHOICE. I LOVE THE STYLING & LOOKS…but I won’t even consider one because of the absurdly high cost of ownership and maintenance (from what I've read).
* Honda Crosstourer: Hondas have served me very well for decades, so the CT just might be the ticket...if they ever bring it to the US.
* Yamaha Super Tenere: If Honda doesn’t bring the CT to the US (and even if they do), then I’m looking strongly at the S10. Some call it boring with “no soul”, but from what I’ve read, it sounds like a great bike that meets most of the criteria on my wish list.

I welcome any & all comments. Don’t hesitate to “rake me over the coals” if you think my logic is flawed or for any other reason that you care to comment on. I look forward to hearing from all of you, b/c the more information that I have, the better decision I’ll be able to make on my bike purchase. Thanks.
Currently have a Aprilia Caponord,great once sorted...
Thinking Tiger 800,if I go new...
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:14 PM   #64
cug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
I enjoy hearing what others consider to be the pros & cons on different models, and IMO, this is one of the best ways to learn and arm myself with the information that I need to make an informed decision on which bike to purchase that will best fit my preferences & riding style.
The problem is that it doesn't matter what others say. See down below Pluric saying that the Tiger felt like being passenger on a sport bike. I don't feel like that at all - but it could have been the seat (on low or low seat), you never know. Yes, it does have the pegs higher than the Tenere, with the benefit of ground clearance.

For what you "learn" here - I think it's useless information. Because there are no absolute definitions for what feels "comfortable", "buzzy", "powerful", "heavy" or "light". Therefore, all you get is one persons opinion on a bike they own, owned, or have ridden. Given that you come from a different perspective, are a different person, have different anatomy, all this information is basically completely useless to you. It certainly isn't wrong or useless for the person making the statement, but unless you compare yourself it's useless information for you.

One example: the Multistrada vibrates more than the GS. For me personally the Multi's vibrations don't bother me as much as the ones from the GS or from a Tiger 800 with screwed up throttle body balance. It doesn't matter which one vibrates more or less, you have to feel it yourself to know whether the frequency of the vibrations bother you.

Same is true for power: sure, a new watercooled GS feels very powerful to me coming from an 800 engine with 95HP. It doesn't feel like that coming from a Ducati Multistrada. There it just feels heavy and otherwise different.

Another example: Coming from my Tiger with front Traxxion and rear Öhlins perfectly matched to my weight and riding style the standard suspensions on pretty much every other bike feel like shit. When I got on the new watercooled GS it felt harsh, steering felt dog slow, suspension felt like crap. Does it mean that it actually is crap? No, of course not - it's a matter of perspective and what you're used to. Give me a day on the new GS and the only remaining issue for me is likely the harshness.

For you, pretty much all these bikes will feel light. There will not that much difference between a GS and Tiger 800, just because of perspective: a current Goldwing is roughly 920lbs ready to ride (according to Honda website). A GS is 525lbs, a Tiger 800 is 462lbs. So, a Goldwing is 400 to 460lbs heavier than the other two. Both will feel like you're on a Vespa. Same will be true for a Tenere or a Tiger Explorer. They will all feel light to you because they are in comparison to a Goldwing. The Wing is nearly twice the weight of my Tiger and I still think the Tiger is heavy. That's because I compare it to a WR250R. So, does me thinking the Tiger is heavy help you at all? I don't think so.

With regard to test rides: Plan a weekend in a big city near you. Call all the relevant dealers whether they have demo bikes and make appointments to ride them. Triumph and BMW generally offer demo rides. For the others it's hit and miss and depends on the dealers. Make as many appointments as you can (test rides should be free - you shouldn't need to rent a bike for a half or full hour test ride). Plan this as a weekend trip or so and you'll know way more afterwards than after reading other people's opinion for years.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:23 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
The Triumph does have the motor everyone keeps talking about. Kinda reminded me of my FZ1. Great sound, smooth and impressive top end. Hated the high pitch whine.
Ergos were like being a passenger on a sport bike. Pegs are quite high. Nice firm suspension.
Seemed to be a sport standard with a 21 inch front wheel. But oh that motor.
Question about that: was the seat in high setting or was it potentially even a low seat? There is quite some variance with the seats possible. But I agree the pegs on the Tiger feel higher than on the Tenere. The Tenere has one of the best seating positions for me out of the box I have ever felt. Only bike better for me without modifications was the Multistrada.

And that engine, I did my fun game today again and stayed in 3rd gear for the whole way marked here (yes, really, I didn't shift a single time):


View Larger Map
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:45 PM   #66
pluric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
Question about that: was the seat in high setting or was it potentially even a low seat? There is quite some variance with the seats possible. But I agree the pegs on the Tiger feel higher than on the Tenere. The Tenere has one of the best seating positions for me out of the box I have ever felt. Only bike better for me without modifications was the Multistrada.

And that engine, I did my fun game today again and stayed in 3rd gear for the whole way marked here (yes, really, I didn't shift a single time):


View Larger Map
I'd just got off the GS800 onto the Triumph. My knees started to hurt from the bend.
I have no idea how the seat was set. Yes, when I got back on the Tenere, low seat setting
with an Airhawk, the leg room was better than both 800s.

If I were buying for more street use the Triumph did it for me. I liked the GS midrange and ergos
better for off road. Would need more preload for my weight. Vibe wise the Triumph wins for smoothness.
Fit and finish was nice as well. Still thinking about that motor.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:48 PM   #67
Blue Mule
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My3Sons....

couple questions, maybe been asked...i didnt read ALL the replies.

any dirt experience?

whats the dealer support in your area?

how far from you HQ, to get to the fire roads?


that outta the way...as a S10 owner...i'm biased, but theres NATION wide support for them, much like your G.Wing. i think it meets almost all your wants with a tweak or two...
i did 1000 miles on a stock Tenere seat with no issues, mine had no buzz at all, but i think as Pluric said, coming from a Wing, that may be different to You. long term cost of ownership...lowest on the S10...IMHO

i cant speak to any Euro bikes besides BMWs...and i dont think I'd ever get another, unless i win the lottery, and even then, its not THAT much better of a machine. in fact i thought the S10 handled better at low speed, and felt less like a street bike.

.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:12 PM   #68
my3sons59 OP
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Great advice! Thx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
The problem is that it doesn't matter what others say. See down below Pluric saying that the Tiger felt like being passenger on a sport bike. I don't feel like that at all - but it could have been the seat (on low or low seat), you never know. Yes, it does have the pegs higher than the Tenere, with the benefit of ground clearance.

For what you "learn" here - I think it's useless information. Because there are no absolute definitions for what feels "comfortable", "buzzy", "powerful", "heavy" or "light". Therefore, all you get is one persons opinion on a bike they own, owned, or have ridden. Given that you come from a different perspective, are a different person, have different anatomy, all this information is basically completely useless to you. It certainly isn't wrong or useless for the person making the statement, but unless you compare yourself it's useless information for you.

One example: the Multistrada vibrates more than the GS. For me personally the Multi's vibrations don't bother me as much as the ones from the GS or from a Tiger 800 with screwed up throttle body balance. It doesn't matter which one vibrates more or less, you have to feel it yourself to know whether the frequency of the vibrations bother you.

Same is true for power: sure, a new watercooled GS feels very powerful to me coming from an 800 engine with 95HP. It doesn't feel like that coming from a Ducati Multistrada. There it just feels heavy and otherwise different.

Another example: Coming from my Tiger with front Traxxion and rear Öhlins perfectly matched to my weight and riding style the standard suspensions on pretty much every other bike feel like shit. When I got on the new watercooled GS it felt harsh, steering felt dog slow, suspension felt like crap. Does it mean that it actually is crap? No, of course not - it's a matter of perspective and what you're used to. Give me a day on the new GS and the only remaining issue for me is likely the harshness.

For you, pretty much all these bikes will feel light. There will not that much difference between a GS and Tiger 800, just because of perspective: a current Goldwing is roughly 920lbs ready to ride (according to Honda website). A GS is 525lbs, a Tiger 800 is 462lbs. So, a Goldwing is 400 to 460lbs heavier than the other two. Both will feel like you're on a Vespa. Same will be true for a Tenere or a Tiger Explorer. They will all feel light to you because they are in comparison to a Goldwing. The Wing is nearly twice the weight of my Tiger and I still think the Tiger is heavy. That's because I compare it to a WR250R. So, does me thinking the Tiger is heavy help you at all? I don't think so.

With regard to test rides: Plan a weekend in a big city near you. Call all the relevant dealers whether they have demo bikes and make appointments to ride them. Triumph and BMW generally offer demo rides. For the others it's hit and miss and depends on the dealers. Make as many appointments as you can (test rides should be free - you shouldn't need to rent a bike for a half or full hour test ride). Plan this as a weekend trip or so and you'll know way more afterwards than after reading other people's opinion for years.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:26 PM   #69
my3sons59 OP
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Thanks for your post.

* No dirt experience to speak of...other than the gazillion dirt & gravel roads I traveled as a kid on my beloved Honda Trail 70. :-)

* Great Yamaha dealer support in my area (2 dealers closer than an hour); BMW, Moto Guzzi, Triumph: none. The closest dealers for these brands would be hundreds of miles.

* I have gravel, dirt, & fire roads galore within minutes of my house!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Mule View Post
My3Sons....

couple questions, maybe been asked...i didnt read ALL the replies.

any dirt experience?

whats the dealer support in your area?

how far from you HQ, to get to the fire roads?


that outta the way...as a S10 owner...i'm biased, but theres NATION wide support for them, much like your G.Wing. i think it meets almost all your wants with a tweak or two...
i did 1000 miles on a stock Tenere seat with no issues, mine had no buzz at all, but i think as Pluric said, coming from a Wing, that may be different to You. long term cost of ownership...lowest on the S10...IMHO

i cant speak to any Euro bikes besides BMWs...and i dont think I'd ever get another, unless i win the lottery, and even then, its not THAT much better of a machine. in fact i thought the S10 handled better at low speed, and felt less like a street bike.

.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:48 AM   #70
cug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
My knees started to hurt from the bend.
That's just age, has nothing to do with the bike ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
Yes, when I got back on the Tenere, low seat setting with an Airhawk, the leg room was better than both 800s.
Not surprised. The Tenere is very roomy and I also think the foot pegs are in a slightly better position. I pulled the rubber out of the OEM foot pegs and use an Airhawk (at the moment, although I don't like it much) on the standard seat in the high setting. Tenere still has more room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
Still thinking about that motor.
The engine is an absolute gem. You can kick and it'll scream like a cat with a burned tail, you can go slow and it'll pull out from 1500rpm and not complain ones. It's totally amazing. Possibly the best engine I had in a motorcycle, the '93 VFR750F v-four being a close second - but that might be clouded by bad long term memory ... ;-)
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:50 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
* Great Yamaha dealer support in my area (2 dealers closer than an hour); BMW, Moto Guzzi, Triumph: none. The closest dealers for these brands would be hundreds of miles.

* I have gravel, dirt, & fire roads galore within minutes of my house!
Get the Super Tenere (and a WR250R for the fire roads). A great dealer is worth his weight in gold ...
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:40 AM   #72
pluric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
That's just age, has nothing to do with the bike ...


Exactly. The OP is in a similar age bracket and I can only assume similar joints.


Not surprised. The Tenere is very roomy and I also think the foot pegs are in a slightly better position. I pulled the rubber out of the OEM foot pegs and use an Airhawk (at the moment, although I don't like it much) on the standard seat in the high setting. Tenere still has more room.

Try more air in your Airhawk. I met the factory boys on a ride one time. They set mine for me
as almost flat. I hated it. Put more air in and don't ride without one. The comfort level for me
was much better on the Tenere and the GS800. The GS felt like it was working a little hard
to do a steady 80+ all day. Both the GS and Triumph had the factory useless windscreen.
I was wearing an open face helmet and it was not fun. Right now I have a V Stream large
touring screen on the Tenere and it's nice to hide behind.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:18 AM   #73
castle-of-teck
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There´s no such bike you could buy, IMHO.

Best compromise is a GSA, get one with the optional ESA suspension. The 2013 liquid-cooled model is even capable of changing low tension suspension setup while riding - might make your day.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:47 AM   #74
stevie88
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Bullshit, the absolute best bike is the Stelvio. I say this because I have one and therefore it must be the best.

Actually all the bikes mentioned are quite good. You just have to decide what bike really torques your nutz the most. I kind of like having a bike that is rare as long as it performs well. I understand that most people aren't wired that way.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:15 AM   #75
LexLeroy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
Thanks for your post.

* No dirt experience to speak of...other than the gazillion dirt & gravel roads I traveled as a kid on my beloved Honda Trail 70. :-)

* Great Yamaha dealer support in my area (2 dealers closer than an hour); BMW, Moto Guzzi, Triumph: none. The closest dealers for these brands would be hundreds of miles.

* I have gravel, dirt, & fire roads galore within minutes of my house!
My $.02 - It's lookin' like the S10 might be your hot ticket. Lots of folks are doing dirt and gravel on them with no problems. I was out yesterday for instance on a 170 mile back road / gravel road run in southern Kentucky riding my XR650L ahead of a 65+ year-old retiree w/ two artificial knees riding an S10. I couldn't lose him even in the fresh, loose and deep gravel stretches.

I would, however, get a little off-pavement experience on a cheaper (and smaller) used bike like a KLR or a DR before popping for the big Yamaha. There is a learning curve once you leave the pavement and you may wish to consider keeping that curve as short and inexpensive as possible. Just sayin'....
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