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Old 04-14-2013, 08:11 PM   #91
brooklyn slim
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Joined: Mar 2004
Oddometer: 2,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
The problem is that it doesn't matter what others say...
For what you "learn" here - I think it's useless information. Because there are no absolute definitions for what feels "comfortable", "buzzy", "powerful", "heavy" or "light". Therefore, all you get is one persons opinion on a bike they own, owned, or have ridden. Given that you come from a different perspective, are a different person, have different anatomy, all this information is basically completely useless to you. It certainly isn't wrong or useless for the person making the statement, but unless you compare yourself it's useless information for you....
cug, I think you're being just a tad argumentative here. First, remember the OP said that demos on many of the bikes under consideration weren't in the cards, yet you insist that he must - MUST - find a way to demo them. I agree that'd be best, I think it's a scandal that mc dealers get away with insisting that people drop a ton of money for an untested ride. But that's what the OP's facing. That's the reality. That horse is on its back, its legs are in the air, it's starting to stink - fer pete's sake, stop beating the poor thing!

He can't test ride, he wants opinions as a second-best, you pooh-pooh his efforts and say he's wasting his time. The perfect is the enemy of the good, I say.

Of course you're correct in saying that people's tolerance for high-frequency buzzes vary, that one man's "reliable" is another man's "boring", etc. But to generalize from that unremarkable insight to a global indictment of sharing opinions is unwarranted.

Think about it. Most folks who talk about WeeStroms, e.g., agree about their reliability, their forgiving natures, their relatively smooth motors, etc. (is that a bike or a Labrador Retriever?). What emerges from most of these discussions is what looks like a consensus. Are there outliers? Sure. Is the consensus, such as it is, a guarantee that every individual rider will agree? Nope. So what? It's still very interesting that the same cluster of opinions tends to coalesce around this bike. It'd be odd to ignore this statistically striking fact.

Of course it's best to actually ride the bike and see for yourself. But that's a long way from saying that soliciting opinions from others is useless, an eccentric view which you seem to endorse.

I don't think the OP is gonna sue anyone if he finds himself at odds with their opinion. He's asking for feedback, inmates here are ready and willing to oblige, no one's expecting certainty. If the OP finds that the same observations tend to recur about bike X, he may tend to credit those observations, generally a wise thing to do. And he may be wrong.

But it's less likely than what results from taking a shot in the dark.

And most posters include in their comments just the sorts of provisos that would seem to address your concerns, e.g., "yeah, the Stelvio shakes more than an inline four would, but I kinda like feel of it" I read that as, "OK, it's a bit of a shaker, I'd better keep that in mind". Likewise, not a soul complains of the T800 shaking too much - the awesome silkiness of that motor is remarked on by nearly everyone. It'd be kinda dopey to ignore that sort of consensus.

This picture you paint of highly individuated riders atomized into a vapor of insulated aloneness - "You can't possibly know if you and I understand 'smooth' in the same way" - doesn't reflect ordinary reality. In fact, most of the time, when someone says "It's hot" or "It's noisy in here" (decidedly un-metric judgments), he'll find most folks in his environs agree.

Now, can't we all just get along?
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:21 PM   #92
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I have thoroughly enjoyed, absorbed, & appreciated each & every post! I totally understand that I need to ride each of the bikes that I'm considering and certainly won't be able to make a final decision 'til I do. But, after reading all the posts and additional reviews, I'm still considering a Yammy S-10 & I'm re-considering the Triumph Explorer. I don't think I could go wrong with either bike. Do y'all agree??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jon View Post
Woohoo, now that you boys are finally finished agreeing with each other, let's see if My3sons is learning anything from all of this...

my3sons59 screwed with this post 04-14-2013 at 09:53 PM
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:04 AM   #93
Harpoonalt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyn slim View Post
cug, I think you're being just a tad argumentative here. First, remember the OP said that demos on many of the bikes under consideration weren't in the cards, yet you insist that he must - MUST - find a way to demo them. I agree that'd be best, I think it's a scandal that mc dealers get away with insisting that people drop a ton of money for an untested ride. But that's what the OP's facing. That's the reality. That horse is on its back, its legs are in the air, it's starting to stink - fer pete's sake, stop beating the poor thing!

He can't test ride, he wants opinions as a second-best, you pooh-pooh his efforts and say he's wasting his time. The perfect is the enemy of the good, I say.

Of course you're correct in saying that people's tolerance for high-frequency buzzes vary, that one man's "reliable" is another man's "boring", etc. But to generalize from that unremarkable insight to a global indictment of sharing opinions is unwarranted.

Think about it. Most folks who talk about WeeStroms, e.g., agree about their reliability, their forgiving natures, their relatively smooth motors, etc. (is that a bike or a Labrador Retriever?). What emerges from most of these discussions is what looks like a consensus. Are there outliers? Sure. Is the consensus, such as it is, a guarantee that every individual rider will agree? Nope. So what? It's still very interesting that the same cluster of opinions tends to coalesce around this bike. It'd be odd to ignore this statistically striking fact.

Of course it's best to actually ride the bike and see for yourself. But that's a long way from saying that soliciting opinions from others is useless, an eccentric view which you seem to endorse.

I don't think the OP is gonna sue anyone if he finds himself at odds with their opinion. He's asking for feedback, inmates here are ready and willing to oblige, no one's expecting certainty. If the OP finds that the same observations tend to recur about bike X, he may tend to credit those observations, generally a wise thing to do. And he may be wrong.

But it's less likely than what results from taking a shot in the dark.

And most posters include in their comments just the sorts of provisos that would seem to address your concerns, e.g., "yeah, the Stelvio shakes more than an inline four would, but I kinda like feel of it" I read that as, "OK, it's a bit of a shaker, I'd better keep that in mind". Likewise, not a soul complains of the T800 shaking too much - the awesome silkiness of that motor is remarked on by nearly everyone. It'd be kinda dopey to ignore that sort of consensus.

This picture you paint of highly individuated riders atomized into a vapor of insulated aloneness - "You can't possibly know if you and I understand 'smooth' in the same way" - doesn't reflect ordinary reality. In fact, most of the time, when someone says "It's hot" or "It's noisy in here" (decidedly un-metric judgments), he'll find most folks in his environs agree.

Now, can't we all just get along?
Are you a shrink? Nicely stated and very insightful.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:04 AM   #94
Murphy Slaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpoonalt View Post
Are you a shrink?
He stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.....

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Old 04-15-2013, 04:54 AM   #95
bmac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
I have thoroughly enjoyed, absorbed, & appreciated each & every post! I totally understand that I need to ride each of the bikes that I'm considering and certainly won't be able to make a final decision 'til I do. But, after reading all the posts and additional reviews, I'm still considering a Yammy S-10 & I'm re-considering the Triumph Explorer. I don't think I could go wrong with either bike. Do y'all agree??
You bet, I think for what you are looking for those are your two best choices as well. Hopefully, you will get a chance to ride them.

Brooklyn Slim stated it far better than I could and the information gleaned from the members of this forum can be extremely valuable.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:14 AM   #96
stevie88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
I have thoroughly enjoyed, absorbed, & appreciated each & every post! I totally understand that I need to ride each of the bikes that I'm considering and certainly won't be able to make a final decision 'til I do. But, after reading all the posts and additional reviews, I'm still considering a Yammy S-10 & I'm re-considering the Triumph Explorer. I don't think I could go wrong with either bike. Do y'all agree??
You won't go wrong with whatever bike you chose. It's not like you're getting married or something here. If it proves less enjoyable than it should, you can always dump it for a prettier face and bigger boobs.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:24 AM   #97
brooklyn slim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpoonalt View Post
Are you a shrink? Nicely stated and very insightful.
Thanks for your kind words.

Amazingly perceptive call, by the way. I have spent some time as a therapist and some in more academic quarters. Looks like you're the insightful one.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:24 AM   #98
Harpoonalt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post
You won't go wrong with whatever bike you chose. It's not like you're getting married or something here. If it proves less enjoyable than it should, you can always dump it for a prettier face and bigger boobs.

Unless she dumps you first for not being able to handle her!
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:25 AM   #99
brooklyn slim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw View Post
He stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.....

OK, I'm kinda slow sometimes....I don't get it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:27 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyn slim View Post
OK, I'm kinda slow sometimes....I don't get it.
Stayed at Best Western again?
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:33 AM   #101
Wreckchecker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
I have thoroughly enjoyed, absorbed, & appreciated each & every post! I totally understand that I need to ride each of the bikes that I'm considering and certainly won't be able to make a final decision 'til I do. But, after reading all the posts and additional reviews, I'm still considering a Yammy S-10 & I'm re-considering the Triumph Explorer. I don't think I could go wrong with either bike. Do y'all agree??
Go wrong? No. Two winners.

No question, I'm sold on the Tenere and am very similar in demographics and intent to what you've described. And once you've owned a shaft AND been mid-50s, chain maintenance is just repulsive. That and your feeling about the GS really bring the selection to a very small pool.

Something previously mentioned is that it will suck you into more gravel than you probably intend at the start. "Gee wonder where that goes?" suddenly happens more and more as you get comfortable with this bike. I've got 26,000 miles and 600+ miles Saturday and Sunday, probably 20% on dirt roads and rutted mud that deteriorated from having once been roads. Once the seat is flattened and you find a windshield that fits the owner, the Tenere is ideal for this kid of weekend.

The Triumph has the cruise control but would be more limiting off of pavement and you can add an aftermarket cruise to the Tenere.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:41 AM   #102
brooklyn slim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpoonalt View Post
Stayed at Best Western again?
I give you a nice compliment and you taunt me in return ?

C'mon, guys, I still don't get it. Give a slow old guy a break....
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:49 AM   #103
Harpoonalt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyn slim View Post
I give you a nice compliment and you taunt me in return ?

C'mon, guys, I still don't get it. Give a slow old guy a break....
it's a guy thing. If we were monkeys, we'd be flinging poo at each other.PM sent
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:01 AM   #104
brooklyn slim
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Originally Posted by Harpoonalt View Post
it's a guy thing. If we were monkeys, we'd be flinging poo at each other.PM sent
Wait, are you saying this poo flinging thing is only for monkeys....?

My bad.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #105
Pecha72
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All current big ADV bikes are very capable of doing just about anything you throw at them, mostly they're biased towards the road though there are a few exceptions. What makes the difference is which bike speaks TO YOU. That's kinda hard to know unless you ride them all.

KTM's new 1190 according to a few reviews that I've seen, appears to be a very serious contender, and I wouldn't be surprised if it'll actually become the 'benchmark' in this class. Haven't had a chance to ride it so far myself, but a very interesting new model (don't know if it's sold in the US this year, though).
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