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Old 04-18-2013, 08:52 AM   #121
rockywidge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
I love these comments. The point you have proven is you might be afraid to take these bikes
to the next level. Others do it every day.

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....3&postcount=48
64 years old and still in good shape . Going to keep it that way . Tank full and 600 lbs. too much for this guy to lift !
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:14 AM   #122
pluric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockywidge View Post
64 years old and still in good shape . Going to keep it that way . Tank full and 600 lbs. too much for this guy to lift !
58 and out of shape here. I don't look forward to picking em up either.
I just don't want to miss the chance of a good ride.


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Old 04-18-2013, 10:31 AM   #123
rockywidge
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[QUOTE=pluric;21215755]58 and out of shape here. I don't look forward to picking em up either.
I just don't want to miss the chance of a good ride.


[/Q
Yikes !! I'm planning on riding some logging roads in our neck of the woods . Never had a ride that could do that before . I''l get some pics up when I do . Nice wheelie shots by the way . Cheers . .UOTE]
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:59 AM   #124
my3sons59 OP
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Thanks for your post. Based on what you said and your hearty recommendation, I'll definitely test ride a Stelvio before buying anything else. A few questions:
* IYO, do you think the Stelvio would be a good match for my size: 5'11", 175#? The reason I ask, is that on some internet photos that I've seen of the Stelvio, it looks like the rider has inadequate leg room. Most all of the reviews of the bike comment favorably on how comfortable it is. Do you feel the least bit cramped on long-distance rides?
* Tell me more about re-mapping the ECU. How much does this service cost? And where do you get it done? Only at MG dealers? Would this in any way be harmful to the engine or void the warranty? Does it help tremendously with the vibes?
* I prefer to buy used bikes and let someone else take the initial hit on depreciation. IYO, would I be safe looking for any year model from 2008 & newer? In other words, have any MAJOR improvements or cosmetic changes been made since 2008?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockywidge View Post
I have to weigh in here which is something I don't usually do to prove a point . I've ridden most of the bikes you mentioned except the Ducati which is considered the best of the bunch by many . The price sure is and your right , way to much HPs for me . The BMW GS has to many final drive problems and once again very pricey . The KTM is a great bike , chain or no chain and probably better off road than the whole bunch . The Triumph would be great if it wasn't so darn spookey in the corners . A little unnerving for this old fart . I didn't go for the Yamaha because it just didn't fit .
So , I bought the Stelvio NTX and here's why .

Great motor , tons of torque at all revs and in all gears . I did not find the vibration annoying to the point of disliking . Between 3 and 4,000 rpm , a lilttle more noticeable but certainly not to the point of seeing out the mirrors or feeling my hands go numb . Apparently emission standards in Europe make the bike run lean and the motor runs much smoother with a remapped ECU which I am considering but I'm not worried about it right away . Maybe after the first 10,000 kms . when its well broken in .

Great looking bike , great suspension , you won't be disappointed in the least with the handling and the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden . The 32 litre gas tank is also a feature .

Great value , all in bags , ABS Traction control , heated grips , very comfortable seat , less expensive by quite a bit than the other bikes .

As for off road , none of these bikes great as they're all too heavy . They are ok for gravel ,dirt roads and logging roads but thats about it . I plan on being on asphalt 95 % of the time .

I'm on Vancouver Island and there is a Guzzi dealer 3 1/2 hours away which isn't bad . They've made good progress in the last few years with expanding their dealerships .

I can't stay off this bike , its definitely going from wild to mild after having among other bikes a Triumph Sprint . This bike is an absolute joy to ride and more solid than anything I've previously ridden . Great wind protection and a good sitting position .
Just saying , give it a test ride if you can and make your own judgement but the vibration issue you read about is way over stated in my opinion. It has just enough vibration to let you know your riding a big twin which is old school and pretty alright for this guy having started out on a 65 Triumph many moons ago .
Good luck with your choice which ever it is , you'll be a happy biker on a new ride .
Cheers,
Steve
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #125
kirb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
* IYO, do you think the Stelvio would be a good match for my size: 5'11", 175#? The reason I ask, is that on some internet photos that I've seen of the Stelvio, it looks like the rider has inadequate leg room. Most all of the reviews of the bike comment favorably on how comfortable it is. Do you feel the least bit cramped on long-distance rides?
* Tell me more about re-mapping the ECU. How much does this service cost? And where do you get it done? Only at MG dealers? Would this in any way be harmful to the engine or void the warranty? Does it help tremendously with the vibes?
* I prefer to buy used bikes and let someone else take the initial hit on depreciation. IYO, would I be safe looking for any year model from 2008 & newer? In other words, have any MAJOR improvements or cosmetic changes been made since 2008?
You have to sit on a Stelvio to see if it is OK for your fit. It should be fine for someone your size. Seat is adjustable in 2 postions. The NTX carries it's fuel well...you would never know that nearly 60lbs of fuel is sitting on the frame.

Leg room is fine. I'm 6' with 36" inseam...my knee is 3" or more away from the cylinder head. I have way more room here than my FJR. I can get over 300 miles on a tank easy...I could ride a tankful without stopping, easy. This bike is one of the most comfortable I have ever ridden. I did 2 for 1 fuel stops with a buddy on his HD eglide.

There are more options with re-map every day...it could void your warranty which is why I won't be remapping until the warranty is up. The map isn't going to help with vibes much. They are going to help with running and making the mixture more rich. Guzzis take time to break in. Mileage improves, vibes are less, and heat drops. It's true. Many Guzzi owners will tell you this. I started seeing this in my 2012 NTX after 5k miles.

Stelvios (in US) were the small tank (5gal) versions from 09-11. The NTX is 12-13 in the large tank (8.5 gal) version loaded with goodies. Changes are few- revised cam profile for more low end twist, narrower rear rim for better tire selection, bigger tank, able to change heated grips while moving, etc. Equipment on the NTX bikes is good- hand guards, side cases and racks, skid plate. Minor changes that are (IMHO) worth it. You can sometimes find a nearly new NTX bike a few thou off MSRP, but they are selling well. Don't expect to steal an NTX right now.

The fact that NTX bikes are so good makes the 09-11 bikes a slightly better value overall.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:10 AM   #126
JohnG.
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54yrs young and starting to think lighter is the way...

BTW,love these guys attitude...ride on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_T41kJm-PE
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:32 AM   #127
my3sons59 OP
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Thanks for your post. I thoroughly enjoyed the video. I hope to be just like the guys in the video...ride 'til I die!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG. View Post
54yrs young and starting to think lighter is the way...

BTW,love these guys attitude...ride on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_T41kJm-PE
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:46 AM   #128
browneye
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56 here, more than forty years riding. Relatively new to adventuring though (about 4 years), my past is on dirtbikes and enduros. Lighter is always better, both for low speed handling as well as off pavement.

Have owned DL1000, Versys, and now Tiger 800XC, as well as a whole slew of other unrelated bikes. Have ridden all the others. The tiger is at least a hundred poinds lighter than the other big bikes on your list which was a BIG plus for me. Still, loaded down with gear for a week, I doubt I could pick it up. I made a deal with myself when I started riding again....no more falls. So far I've kept the deal.

I like the Guzzi too, but it's really heavy and some have had issues. The main thing for me was lack of dealer network and a really obscure brand. If that doesn't bother you it's a lot of bike for the money, comes with everything, good history on the motor and drivetrain.

Were it not for the Tiger I would probably be a S10 or 990 rider. The other bikes scratched off for all the reasons mentioned. The big KTM's have had a lot of issues too so I tend to shy away. Avid rider of their small bikes though and much easier to keep running. They are just a lot more simple than their big bikes.

I will say the Tiger is a wonderful bike. With 5K on it now I'd recommend the Explorer over the S10 for a bigger bike with shaft drive. The 800 has plenty of umph for anything one could want to do though, and it's 475lbs. The chain is just not a big deal. It's simpler than a shaft, and easy to keep up, especially with a centerstand. The motor is absolutely stellar though and that is what has propelled it to the top of the heap.


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Old 04-19-2013, 06:25 PM   #129
blues
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Question for you Stelvio guys.

Would you ride it to Alaska? If yes, what tires would you use?

I'm 64 and thinking about doing some big rides and know that I don't have the right bikes for the job. Lots of off road riding experience and a fair bit of Adventure riding experience as well. The Super T is on the short list and the MG sounds really appealing and I had a V1100 a few bikes back.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:22 PM   #130
JustKip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browneye View Post
56 here, more than forty years riding. Relatively new to adventuring though (about 4 years), my past is on dirtbikes and enduros. Lighter is always better, both for low speed handling as well as off pavement.

Have owned DL1000, Versys, and now Tiger 800XC, as well as a whole slew of other unrelated bikes. Have ridden all the others. The tiger is at least a hundred poinds lighter than the other big bikes on your list which was a BIG plus for me. Still, loaded down with gear for a week, I doubt I could pick it up. I made a deal with myself when I started riding again....no more falls. So far I've kept the deal.

I will say the Tiger is a wonderful bike. With 5K on it now I'd recommend the Explorer over the S10 for a bigger bike with shaft drive. The 800 has plenty of umph for anything one could want to do though, and it's 475lbs. The chain is just not a big deal. It's simpler than a shaft, and easy to keep up, especially with a centerstand. The motor is absolutely stellar though and that is what has propelled it to the top of the heap.


There's a lot to agree with here, and ONE thing that's not quite accurate!
The Tiger 800 IS 475 lbs...and that's only 35 lbs more than a R12GS...NOT 100.

I ride an '07 GS, and my GF has a Tiger 800 "roadie" that I encouraged her (as a new rider, 1 year exp, 1 year ago) to get. She even has those same Caribou cases. The chain is a non issue, and the bike has a low center of gravity so it feels light, and it's narrow. I've put quite a few miles on it and love the bike...but wouldn't trade my GS for power and comfort reasons, because it's only slightly better off road(if at all). Karen has no problem keeping up with me on any highway well beyond legal speeds - 90 mph into a strong headwind with those Caribou boxes and a dry bag strapped on top.

If you like a sporty ride you can scratch the Tiger Explorer off the list, because the front end wallows like an older Harley touring bike. The Super Ten is a little heavier (50lbs) than my GS and is pretty capable on bad dirt roads, but not a great corner carver. If you don't blast the twisties, the S-10 comfort is right up there with the best(so is the Tiger Explorer, but it wallows like a pig).
And, on the topic of sporty rides, the Multistrada is a fine sport touring bike, lighter than even the Tiger 800, 150HP, and actually does quite well on dirt roads. The problem with the MTS? 17" front wheel, and dropping it is very expensive!

I've never ridden a KTM 990, and the 950 I test rode was leaking at the water pump...I've heard they all do that, and they're not great touring bikes.

I've never seen a Stelvio, so dealer network could be an issue.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:54 PM   #131
my3sons59 OP
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Your post about the Tiger Explorer "wallowing" is interesting. I'm not familiar with the bike, but I HAVE read a lot of reviews, and I don't recall reading anything about this. I wonder if other Explorer owners/riders have experienced this same effect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
There's a lot to agree with here, and ONE thing that's not quite accurate!
The Tiger 800 IS 475 lbs...and that's only 35 lbs more than a R12GS...NOT 100.

I ride an '07 GS, and my GF has a Tiger 800 "roadie" that I encouraged her (as a new rider, 1 year exp, 1 year ago) to get. She even has those same Caribou cases. The chain is a non issue, and the bike has a low center of gravity so it feels light, and it's narrow. I've put quite a few miles on it and love the bike...but wouldn't trade my GS for power and comfort reasons, because it's only slightly better off road(if at all). Karen has no problem keeping up with me on any highway well beyond legal speeds - 90 mph into a strong headwind with those Caribou boxes and a dry bag strapped on top.

If you like a sporty ride you can scratch the Tiger Explorer off the list, because the front end wallows like an older Harley touring bike. The Super Ten is a little heavier (50lbs) than my GS and is pretty capable on bad dirt roads, but not a great corner carver. If you don't blast the twisties, the S-10 comfort is right up there with the best(so is the Tiger Explorer, but it wallows like a pig).
And, on the topic of sporty rides, the Multistrada is a fine sport touring bike, lighter than even the Tiger 800, 150HP, and actually does quite well on dirt roads. The problem with the MTS? 17" front wheel, and dropping it is very expensive!

I've never ridden a KTM 990, and the 950 I test rode was leaking at the water pump...I've heard they all do that, and they're not great touring bikes.

I've never seen a Stelvio, so dealer network could be an issue.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:09 PM   #132
my3sons59 OP
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I, too, am interested in hearing from more Stelvio owners...particularly about the bike's vibration issues. Some say it's been hyped up and isn't that big of a deal, while others (mainly magazine reviewers) say it's an issue to be aware of and taken into consideration. I suppose I'll need to arrange for a test ride to see for myself. Other than what I've heard about the vibes, the bike looks awesome & seems to be a fine ride and worthy of serious consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
There's a lot to agree with here, and ONE thing that's not quite accurate!
The Tiger 800 IS 475 lbs...and that's only 35 lbs more than a R12GS...NOT 100.

I ride an '07 GS, and my GF has a Tiger 800 "roadie" that I encouraged her (as a new rider, 1 year exp, 1 year ago) to get. She even has those same Caribou cases. The chain is a non issue, and the bike has a low center of gravity so it feels light, and it's narrow. I've put quite a few miles on it and love the bike...but wouldn't trade my GS for power and comfort reasons, because it's only slightly better off road(if at all). Karen has no problem keeping up with me on any highway well beyond legal speeds - 90 mph into a strong headwind with those Caribou boxes and a dry bag strapped on top.

If you like a sporty ride you can scratch the Tiger Explorer off the list, because the front end wallows like an older Harley touring bike. The Super Ten is a little heavier (50lbs) than my GS and is pretty capable on bad dirt roads, but not a great corner carver. If you don't blast the twisties, the S-10 comfort is right up there with the best(so is the Tiger Explorer, but it wallows like a pig).
And, on the topic of sporty rides, the Multistrada is a fine sport touring bike, lighter than even the Tiger 800, 150HP, and actually does quite well on dirt roads. The problem with the MTS? 17" front wheel, and dropping it is very expensive!

I've never ridden a KTM 990, and the 950 I test rode was leaking at the water pump...I've heard they all do that, and they're not great touring bikes.

I've never seen a Stelvio, so dealer network could be an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues View Post
Question for you Stelvio guys.

Would you ride it to Alaska? If yes, what tires would you use?

I'm 64 and thinking about doing some big rides and know that I don't have the right bikes for the job. Lots of off road riding experience and a fair bit of Adventure riding experience as well. The Super T is on the short list and the MG sounds really appealing and I had a V1100 a few bikes back.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:11 PM   #133
browneye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
There's a lot to agree with here, and ONE thing that's not quite accurate!
The Tiger 800 IS 475 lbs...and that's only 35 lbs more than a R12GS...NOT 100.

>snip.
Yeah, I exaggerate on the weight, comparing more to s10 and stelvio. They're all pretty close when you get right down to it though.

I did ride a GS and liked it two-up on the freeway. Eighty is comfy and good passing ability. But it shifted clunky and felt heavy in the parking lot. I didn't like the way the engine torque tries to tip the bike. It just felt weird, like it was an airplane engine in a bike frame. I actually liked the tenere a little bettter, but the ecu off idle is horrible, and I doubt it would hold it's value or be as durable as a gs.

The KTM's are fast fast, but not so great on the hiway especially for two-up, although lots of owners do that. Lots of complaints about snatchy fueling too. But the guys that own them seem to love them.

I looked at Multistrada too and liked them, did not dare ride 150hp for fear of wanting one too bad. Ticket getter for me for sure. Have already been stopped twice on the Tiger and one tickey. The 17" front was a non-starter for me coming off the Versys with the same. Great on road, not so much off.

For the OP a GS might make a lot of sense. For me I'd still rather have the tiger, it clicked all the right boxes.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:40 PM   #134
JustKip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
Your post about the Tiger Explorer "wallowing" is interesting. I'm not familiar with the bike, but I HAVE read a lot of reviews, and I don't recall reading anything about this. I wonder if other Explorer owners/riders have experienced this same effect?
Perhaps I miss spoke just a bit. It's actually nothing like a HD on smooth paved roads. It's just that the soft suspension is easily overwhelmed by rough roads, where the rebound isn't able to keep up with washboard gravel or rough, uneven pavement. Actually, and unlike an older Electra Glide, it's brilliant in high speed sweepers....and all of Triumph's triples are the most amazing thing in motorcycles.

BTW, I'm 6'-1", 34" inseam, and was 250lbs when I tested the Explorer last Aug.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:28 AM   #135
Cloudhopper
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Originally Posted by browneye View Post
I did ride a GS and liked it two-up on the freeway. Eighty is comfy and good passing ability. But it shifted clunky and felt heavy in the parking lot. I didn't like the way the engine torque tries to tip the bike. It just felt weird, like it was an airplane engine in a bike frame.
Technically you aren't far off, taking BMW's history and the origin of the engine design into account.

The side tilting is something all bikes do that have an engine with a cranskshaft parallel to the direction of travel. That said I notice it on the Guzzi sitting on the traffic lights, but not while moving.

One thing to keep in mind though when comparing weights with especially to the GS is, that BMW was very keen on having "the lightest bike". So they went to great lenght to ensure that it is on paper and essentially reflects an unridable bike in an equipment state nobody orders. The moment you put center stand, ABS, ESA or even boxes on it and pour fuel into it, that advantage evaporates.
PLus all magazines compare the weight of a R1200GS to all other bikes, not the weight of a GS Adventure. Other bikes (like the Stelvio) present their weight as wet curb, for the NTX that includes all extras and even the boxes. A fueled GSA with empty boxes will almost outweigh a Stelvio, if you put farkles like crashbars, aux lights etc on the GSA make that "easily outweigh".

The perceived weight advantage of the GS is a marketing legend with little to no real world credibility.

If you want light, you don't buy a 1.2 liter adventure bike, you go 450, 650 and maybe 800.
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