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Old 03-06-2015, 06:40 AM   #1
sprok OP
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VA getting a title for a bike that has never had one

I picked up this 1999 TTR250 that as far as I can tell has never had a title issued for it. It has had several owners before me so the history is unclear but the previous owner did not get a title when they bought it. I imagine like so many offroad-only bikes the original purchaser never bothered to get a title and possibly never even got a MCO from the dealer (seemed to be common back then for the dealer to keep it unless it was specifically requested; titles weren't required until 2006).

Regardless, the fact is that I don't have a title and I need one to get it registered for use on the street. All I have is a bill of sale from the previous owner. I have been researching and it seems like I have a few options:

1. The cheapest would be to send a "Affidavit in Lieu of Title Certificate" (VSA 12) along with a request for title, bill of sale, and payment to the DMV headquarters in Richmond. Has anyone done this and what wording did you use on the affidavit? You have to explain why you don't have the title and I'm unsure what language would possibly work best. If this request is approved then they will just mail me a new title. This is the method the lady at the DMV told me to use.

2. Submit an application for a "reconstructed vehicle". I think once I make all the mods to convert it from offroad to street I can get away with this. This is expensive. Not only do I have to pay the normal stuff (tax and title fees) but I have to pay $125 to have a DMV rep or police inspect the bike. Not a huge deal really as far as having to pay more but this way seems like it's going to be a lot of red tape.

3. I could sell the bike to someone in a state where you can get a title with simply a bill of sale (not sure which states have this but I hear there are a few). Then they could sell the bike back to me and I could simply transfer the out-of-state title to Virginia. Since as far as I can tell the bike has never had a title then I believe this should be fine. This would be complicated and risky though so I hope I don't have to go this route. Yes, I know there are commercial services that will do this but many seem shady or are just unaffordable (like $900). Anyone had success recently with one of these services?


Anyone successfully done this? There are a few much older threads where people were going to try but nobody ever posted back whether they were successful or not.
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Old 03-06-2015, 07:06 AM   #2
XDragRacer
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Kind of a drag, Sprok, but have you considered just walking right in to a DMV office, sitting right down, and laying out the situation with (one hopes) a knowledgeable representative? You may be able to take their answers to the bank.

Otherwise, most major motorcycle dealerships have staff members whose specialty is dealing with the DMV (they receive their salaries, in part, from the "administrative costs" you pay when buying a bike there). I believe they would gladly share their take and understanding of the regulations and procedures applicable in your case.

Suggestions only; a response to your valid question from a forum inmate who's "been there, done that" certainly will be valuable.
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Old 03-06-2015, 07:14 AM   #3
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A few years ago I bought a 450 EXC that had no title and had never been registered for street use. I went to the local DMV office and at first got flack. I insisted that the bike was allowed to be titled/registered and that the previous owner simply had never needed to do so as he only used it off road. After some discussion, the DMV folks (they did look up the VIN which showed it streetable here) gave me some paperwork to fill out. Once that was done and a fee of some kind was paid (>$100) I got my title, registration, tags and inspection. Virginia requires hi/lo headlight, brake light (mine only worked w/ the rear brake), plate light, DOT tires and a horn (mine was a compact marine air horn strapped to the bars).

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed here before, try a search and you might get some more specific info, but the bottom line is that it can be done.
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Old 03-06-2015, 07:30 AM   #4
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1. Since it's older you may be able to get away with that. It may also get to Richmond where someone will realize that it's not a street legal bike and screw you.

2. Forget that. I've heard stories of people needing to have things inspected who have waited months. Budget cuts have made it so there are nearly no inspectors for the whole state.

3. Risky, expensive as you said. I'm thinking last resort also.

In general, KTM's are the bikes you see most often registered for the street because their MSO's say "Motorcycle". Japanese bikes MSO's say "Not for Street Use".

Have fun at DMV. A fellow inmate had his trailer title rejected a couple of weeks ago because the PO printed, rather than signed, his name.
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Old 03-06-2015, 07:50 AM   #5
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Yes, if the VIN identifies the bike as "off road only" then you have no chance.
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Old 03-06-2015, 07:57 AM   #6
sprok OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRG View Post
A few years ago I bought a 450 EXC that had no title and had never been registered for street use.
You also need a rear-view mirror (just one) to pass inspection. Do you happen to recall what the paperwork was? Man, that would be awesome if I could figure out what that was and do the same. None of the DMV people I talked to had a clue. I have been to two different DMV's so far. I guess I should try the others near me but I'm not hopeful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldnoGPS View Post
In general, KTM's are the bikes you see most often registered for the street because their MSO's say "Motorcycle". Japanese bikes MSO's say "Not for Street Use".
Ya, it seems every path I listed has risk. Hopefully if one fails it won't hurt my chances of trying the others.

VIN decoders seem to show "motorcycle" and/or "enduro" for this bike. Who knows what the MCO listed though, probably offroad like you said. I'm hoping if the DMV looks up the VIN it will also just show "motorcycle". I'm not super worried about that, I just need the friggin title. My 150 china scooter had an offroad-only MCO and I had no problem getting a title and registering it. That's the kind of thing that depends on which clerk you get at the DMV.
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:03 AM   #7
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Just in case this information may be useful; men say VERMONT at one time was relatively owner-friendly, titling and tagging motorcycles, even for out-of-staters (if a "last resort" situation occurs).

Good luck!
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Old 03-06-2015, 09:37 AM   #8
Bowtie76
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If has really never been titled you might be ok. I have a titled 06 CRF-450R in Virginia. I can't remember if the rule is only the first owner or first title holder can get it plated. I bought it this way so I'm not sure of the details but it can be done.
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:43 AM   #9
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Right - forgot the mirror.

As I said before, I just insisted to the DMV clerk that the bike qualified for street legal status and the fact that the previous owner had not used it that way (and therefore didn't need a title) was irrelevant.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:55 AM   #10
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I came so close to getting the title today. I spent the whole day riding around to different DMV's. I wonder what the IQ is of some of these people. One place would not even run the Virginia CRD 1 form saying I have to go to a police station because I can't just look up random VIN's. It says right on the form that it's legal. Nope, neither the clerk or her supervisor would do it. No other DMV had a problem with the CRD 1 (nobody could find any record of the bike having a VA title).

After getting the same instructions of sending in the affidavit at every DMV, finally after riding like 50 miles, I found someone who said all I needed to do was bring the affidavit in to the office and they would give me a title right there. I didn't have the affidavit with me and I'm kicking myself because I bet she would have given me a title right then. I got the form and ran across town to get it notarized but by the time I got back that clerk was gone (plus you have go through that "information" desk first and that lady was having none of my shenanigans). Dammit!

Anyway, she might have gotten in trouble for doing that because it says right on the form that you have to send it to Richmond.

Oh well, I'll send it in. I just wish I knew exactly what to say on the affidavit to give me the best chance.

I'm tired and need a drink
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:04 PM   #11
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Which DMV seemed to be most... "helpful"..
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:09 PM   #12
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If you get a title there's a good chance it might say "off road only". Check the VIN number if the fourth digit is an "S" it identifies it as an off road vehicle. http://www.kletc.org/handouts/pdf/VI...cycleCodes.doc

If it does show up as "off road only" you can try the reconstructed vehicle option but that's not guaranteed to work either.
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