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Old 04-19-2013, 01:15 PM   #16
clicheche OP
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no offense taken. you're right.

i think i have the manual somewhere.
as these maintenance parameters are so elementary, (aside from knowing the names, i've seen youtube vids, and read some threads that have given me the info i should need.

i've used a manual or 7 before. just being lazy i 'spose.

thanks for the replies.

how does one load pics up? through a third party site or server? not directly to the website correct?
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:41 PM   #17
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http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/cl...tml?sort=3&o=1
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Old 06-14-2015, 08:18 AM   #18
DoctorRoboto
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Replacing seals to chase oil leak

DT175 owners,

I have read through this whole thread, which is incredibly helpful, and went out to line things up on my new 1975 DT175B, as it is mysteriously leaking oil from around the same area. The first thing I found is that the shift shaft cover, part 437-15419-01, is cracked around the oil seal, with JB weld trying to hide the sins of the previous owner. So that's getting replaced immediately.



I was able to wiggle that shift lever shaft (shift shaft asy 2 / 'B', or part #401-18155, the one that goes to the foot lever) quite a bit, and oil started oozing out around the shaft as I did so. This shaft:



Before I cracked that shift shaft cover open to see what seals might be leaking oil, I drained the oil from the bike by opening the drain plug (which has a new fiber crush washer I put on as my first attempt at fixing the oil leak). But instead of seeing oil all in the shift shaft compartment, I found hi-temp (red) lithium grease covering up the shift shaft connection mechanism. I'm very confused by this. So, questions:

1. Where is oil even coming from, if this compartment is packed with grease? From the look of things, oil can't get in here - there's a cavity for the shifter lever in the crankcase (the bottom right hole in the below image), but I can't quite tell where the oil flows relative to this area.
2. Does the cavity for the foot lever shift shaft go all the way through to the other side of the crankcase wall, where the transmission oil sits, or is this a 'sealed' hole? It seems packed with crud and I don't have a good tool to clean that out.
3. Should lithium grease be in the shift shaft compartment, on those two shift shafts and their linkages, or is this an oil bathed compartment?
4. Probably the same as #1, but if no oil is supposed to be in this compartment (see below pic), how the heck is it getting in here, and why would wiggling that shaft - the one that is in no way touching an area where there should be transmission oil - release oil, as opposed to grease, to the outside of the bike? The other shift shaft that goes into the clutch area seems like it might be more exposed to oil, but that one seems pretty clean, causing a good deal of confusion.



I'm planning to replace both oil seals on the two shafts in there, as well as the cover plate and its o-ring. But I'm still very confused where the oil could be coming from. Any help is welcomed.
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DoctorRoboto screwed with this post 06-14-2015 at 08:40 AM
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Old 06-14-2015, 09:08 AM   #19
MathewC
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Is it possible that because of the age of the bike, seals, gaskets were removed by the previous dipshit owner and could not be properly replaced?
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:11 PM   #20
DoctorRoboto
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Previous owner's legacy

I don't think so in this case. The seals were all in there, and look to be in decent shape. Except for the broken housing that had enough flex around the seal to make the seal meaningless, and likely an old o-ring that was no good (there was RTV around the edge of the shifter cover plate), both oil seals I could see were properly installed. There was a missing washer in front of shift shaft A, but that one didn't seem to be leaking oil - it was shift shaft B that seemed to be the leaky one, although still a mystery as to how.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:53 PM   #21
vtwin
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Perhaps the previous owner, having failed to seal the leak with JB Weld, packed the case with grease to stem the flow?
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:04 PM   #22
DoctorRoboto
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Okay, so there isn't supposed to be any grease in there? It's been bugging me - why is there an o-ring on that shift shaft cover? There has to be some kind of lubricant in there, just trying to figure out what it should be.
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Old 06-15-2015, 03:41 AM   #23
stainlesscycle
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doctor roboto:

this is the early shift cover. the shift lever shaft does not pass all the way through. it sits in a hole in the case (the bottom right hole in your picture) that is wallowed out. hence floppy shifter. once it ovals out in the case, there is no fixing it unless you bore the case and insert a bushing where the right end of the short shift shaft sits. until that is done, it will continually wear the outer shift cover hole and get progressively worse. that's why there's a crack on the seal area on the shift cover. this is a common problem. replacing the shift cover without fixing the inner hole will not help. it only takes a few hours of riding to wear an nos outer shift shaft cover. there are 2 different short shift shafts, the later one is longer and hardened on the area riding inside the case. this was an attempt to fix the wallowed hole problem - it dosn't help, it actually makes it worse, as there's more leverage now to wallow the case hole out bigger. once the inner hole is wallowed the shift shaft cover will oval very rapidly. it is ridiculously progressive how fast it can oval out both surfaces the short shaft rides on.

"the cavity for the foot lever shift shaft go all the way through to the other side of the crankcase wall" no, it's just a recessed hole, it does not go through the case. this is the achilles heel, and the root of all problems.. it needs a bushing installed to fix it. you can also install a bushing behind the seal on the shift shaft cover itself

i pack the shift linkage area with grease. and make sure the linkage is tight and properly together. it gets hot in there and the grease can ooze out the seal potentially. that's probably what's leaking. the oring is there to hold the grease in.

oil could come through the main shift shaft seal (the one under the linkage) and migrate out to the outer shift shaft seal (unlikely)



you can put all nos parts inside the shift shaft cover and you still will have issues until you fix the wallowed hole in the case. i race one of these motors every weekend (1974 mx175) - and have replaced all of these parts multiple times... this area is by far the weakest point of the otherwise bulletproof motor.

make sure you look at the fiche and are not missing the thrust washer inside the linkage.

you do not need to drain the oil to service the shift shaft cover..



.
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Old 06-15-2015, 04:57 AM   #24
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Thanks for the info! This is both immensely helpful and really frustrating. Not only would this fix do me basically no good, but it means that there's still an undiagnosed oil leak somewhere else on the bike, and that I didn't need to drain the oil yet.
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Old 06-15-2015, 05:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorRoboto View Post
Thanks for the info! This is both immensely helpful and really frustrating. Not only would this fix do me basically no good, but it means that there's still an undiagnosed oil leak somewhere else on the bike, and that I didn't need to drain the oil yet.
the fix will help your shifter movement/shifter cover issues. this may not be where the leak is, but it will progressively get worse if you ride this bike regularly.


clean the cases very throughly. fill cases with atf (it's thin, cheap, and easier to use to find leaks....) - let bike sit overnight on side stand (so it's leaning toward the left side...) with shift shaft cover off and linkage out. and see if there's any leaks.

if not, reassemble shifter assembly, go ride and get motor hot. look for leaks. if it's gonna leak, atf will be easy to find.

these motors do not have a tendency to leak, even if totally neglected. i would guess either your drain plug has an issue, or the case is cracked.

there is a large o-ring that works as a gasket around the shift shaft cover - is this missing?
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Old 06-16-2015, 04:20 AM   #26
DoctorRoboto
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Awesome - I will look into putting some ATF in there. You're saying just pour it in the fill port as if it were trans oil, and let it sit? That seems pretty doable. Is it colored? Never bought it before. Can I just drain it when I'm done, or does it need to be flushed somehow before I put trans oil back in there?

The o-ring was in there, plus the PO used some kind of RTV sealant around the outside edges for additional seal. It was a mess in there when I opened it up, but not a mix of oil and grease, just grease and ripped apart RTV bits from opening it. If I'm going to get a new cover, I'll get the o-ring as well.

As for the oil plug, it was definitely leaking when I got it, and apparently continues to do so even after replacing the totally shredded crush washer with a new one and cleaning everything up. Next round, I plan to replace the plug itself in addition to the washer, and see if that's the main source of the leak. But something tells me there are / were multiple leaks, based on where the oil was on the engine.
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Old 06-16-2015, 04:29 AM   #27
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pour it in just like trans oil, no need to flush later. you can run it for a while if you like. i run atf in a couple bikes as trans oil, just change it more frequently. ut makes for a nicer clutch feel usually.

generally atf is red, so it will be noticeable. it may help to put a white piece of paper under the bike so you can find the drip location..

there's really no reason for the shifter cover to leak, the only way oil can get in there is through the front shift shaft seal.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:01 AM   #28
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Yuck DR - sorry to hear the DT is giving you trouble. That's a fun little bike.

Seems like you have found a nice font of knowledge though, and in time to save you replacing every ancillary party only to be defeated by an issue in the cases.
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