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Old 04-17-2013, 03:44 PM   #1
ca95dream OP
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Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Oakland Ca.
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Pissed 1983 R65 electrical help

Hello all. This is my first post here.

I bought this 1983 R65. According to PO it was running fine and then left to sit for a few months. When he returned to start it he got nothing. Turn the key and you get nothing. Thats how I bought it.

I have since:
Charged the battery which is pumping out around 14v.
I have changed the fuses.
I have followed all the wires and made sure every connection is good.
I have cleaned all the grounds.
I have replaced the kill switch and made sure that its is working properly.
I have checked the ignition switch and made sure it is working properly.
I tried to jump it via the rear tailight switch and I get power to the dash that way but when I push the button, I just get a clicking sound from the starter relay.
I replaced the starter relay and the Bosch relay just in case.
I can jump the bike by just removing the relays and puting wires in between.

I need help. I don't know where the problem lies.

Here is a video of where I'm at. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2iHrreg ... e=youtu.be


Thanks,
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:34 PM   #2
Warin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca95dream View Post
I tried to jump it via the rear tailight switch and I get power to the dash that way but when I push the button, I just get a clicking sound from the starter relay.

Do NOT do this!!!! This is a good way of burning up the wiring harness...

If you are going to 'jump' it always go to a high current point ... like the battery terminals.

----------------------------------------------

The clicking of the relay indicates a bad connection/joint. Or the battery voltage is low. The relay activates .. but then the voltage drops and the relay drops out.. then the voltage rises (as there is now no longer the large load that the relay connected too) and the cycle repeats.

Another alternative is http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878523 ... but if you have 'jumped' it, I'd suspect the starter motor is ok.

You must have a voltmeter and a wiring diagram..

What is the battery voltage while you attempt to start the bike? Must be over 10 volts? Otherwise that relay may drop out.. Measure it at the battery terminals to avoid any bad connections. If it is low 'jump' it at the battery terminals.

If the battery is good then

You need to find out where that bad joint/connection is. While you say you have cleaned connections/joint not all are viable or accessible! There are at least 3 hidden inside the wiring harness to start with. Look at the wiring diagram. See where a whole bunch of wires are jointed together... those are inside the wiring harness ... and are spot wielded together. Water can get in there and cause corrosion and a bad joint over time.

Turn on the headlamp. Measure the voltage ACROSS the headlamp - take the 'earth' connection at the headlamp ... not somewhere else. This way you include any voltage drop in the earth leads.. Now compare that to the battery voltage (leaving the headlight on) The difference between the two readings is the voltage drop. If it is large (say 1 volt or more) then you need to trace it out ... e.g. leave the voltmeter earth connection on the battery and measure to the 'earth' on the headlight .. more than 1/2 a volt and you have your problem .. there are 6 connections here - trace them out - one on the headlight to the harness, two inside the harness and one from the harness to 'earth'. Another 2 are at the battery terminal and at the end of the battery lead on the gearbox breather bolt (now named 'Fred' http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770312).

use the same method to trace out your fault.

Warin screwed with this post 04-17-2013 at 04:55 PM
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:42 PM   #3
damurph
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I assume you have replaced the relay you are bypassing with the wire in your video. Is it possible that the relay that you replaced it with is faulty? You seem to be doing the right things though.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:21 AM   #4
georgesgiralt
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Hello !
I own an '82 R65. So....
Your wiring if far from OEM.
At the front of the bike there is a metal part with 4 square holes in it. There you should have the connectors for the wiring from the handlebar. Two for the left side (more or less filled depending if you bike has continuous burning light or not) and one for the right side.
The ICU for the ignition should be on a radiator and bolted to the frame. Otherwise it will fry on hot summer ride...
So as the wiring has been a lot tampered with, the behavior could be normal...
Last but not least look at the cable from the positive of the battery where it enters the engine to bolt on the starter motor.
Sometimes, it is partly worn out here leaving too much less copper to pass the required current.
If you have to change the battery, go the AGM route. They are cheap and very good on these bikes...
I will suggest you get the proper schematics for your bike and verify/rewire the harness ... Good knows what you will find ...
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:56 PM   #5
ca95dream OP
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Thanks for the tips all.

I will attempt to work on the bike this weekend see what I can manage.

Thanks again,

Francisco
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:02 AM   #6
ca95dream OP
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@ Damurph. I have replaced both relays just in case. Thanks though.

@ Warin. My starter spins just fine and when I jump the relays, the bike usually starts right away. It does not make any strange sounds or anything so I think its good.

I have removed FRED and cleaned it well. I don't think thats where the problem is either.

I took the battery off and have had it charging. It now puts out a bit above 14 volts.

What i do with teh rear switch is just run a bigger gauge wire from the green and black port to the red terminal on the battery. I was told by BMW mechanic that its the way he starts bikes when the customer did leave a key. Sadly for me, I get power to the dash and my headlight but just the clicking sound.

When I turn the key in the ignition, I hear a click sound first from the Bosch Relay and then from the starter relay. However, I do not get power to the headlight or any of the dash instruments.

I don't even need to have the key in the ignition to get the clicking sound when I press the starter button.

I have been looking through the harness and will be cleaning it all up today to see if I can find the part where things are going wrong. I know which areas you're talking about. I targeted on yesterday and it looked solid and all well connected.

I cant try what your mentioning about the headlight because I get no power to the headlight area unless I jump the bosch relay.

Thanks so much for your help. I'm going to figure this out! If not, I might just buy a "new" harness and see whats what then.

Thanks again.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:02 PM   #7
Warin
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You don't have a 'normal fault'. I suspect there is a miss wiring issue, i.e. a circuit is missing or misswired.

Suggest you start at the battery and trace through to the starter, and again for the headlight.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:15 PM   #8
ca95dream OP
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I went through it again today. I took the harness wrap almost completely off. I found one place where a red wire was cut. I reconnected it and got power to the dash. I still have a click only from the relay. After seeing the harness today, I think I'm going to buy another on monday. I found one local for $30 at my local BMW repair.

Thanks all and I'll keep you posted.

BTW. I jumped the relay and put the tank back on and went for a ride. Just couldn't resist.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:57 PM   #9
ca95dream OP
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So... I replaced the wiring harness today. sadly I'm still having the same issue.

Can someone tell me the order of the cables at the ignition?

I feel like I have been following the wiring diagram but I feel like something is off.

Thanks
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:16 AM   #10
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With the new harness did it replace the base that the relay goes into?

Have you tested the relays? Do their plugs look good?

Have you tested the battery with a load like the headlight?
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:08 AM   #11
oldroadie
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So both relays click?

That implies:A) the relay that energizes the solenoid is good. B) the solenoid is not passing 12v to the stater. Check the heavy 12v cable to the solenoid and the heavy output cable...I'd bet your problem lies there.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:01 PM   #12
ca95dream OP
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@ squish: The base of the relays was cleaned and replaced. I have also replaced both relays. I have tested the battery MANY ways including with the headlight load.

@ oldroadie: I will check both of those. Thanks.

Still want the proper order for the cables that go into the key switch, please.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:32 PM   #13
hardwaregrrl
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Not sure if they're the same, but pretty sure. Off of an '81 G/S. Stolen from Tom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infracaninophile View Post


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Old 04-24-2013, 03:23 PM   #14
Warin
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Questions for clarification?

When you press the starter motor button - the relay clicks ONCE (not a rattle), and then clicks again when the button is released?

When you replaced the loom - did you follow the wiring diagram? Or did you simply follow the old looms connections?

-------------- Assumeing one click from the relay (not rattleing) then the following would be useful information

On the starter motor relay - terminal no 87 ... what voltage does that have

When the starter motor button is not pressed (but ignition switch is on)?


When the starter motor button is pressed (but ignition switch is on)?


If those voltages are ok we can assume that the clutch switch, neutral switch, ignition switch, relays, wiring loom etc are ok... and move through the connector to the starter motor.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:23 AM   #15
ca95dream OP
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I went to Recommended Service in San Francisco and spoke with Dave again yesterday.

He felt it was the relay and even though I had bought a new one he gave me another and sure enough it was the relay. Why the new one did not work, who knows?

The harness needed to be repaired/replaced anyway so the bike runs and rides and I commuted to work starting this week and it is very nice ride. Needs a good carb cleaning and some other stuff but over all, good.

Thanks all for the help.

Now onto the Harley!
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