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Old 04-20-2013, 09:20 AM   #31
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I love this thread...the same discusion comes up every year on many forums..... the result is always the same. Don't bring a gun into Canada. (but if you do, I am with Drift10 on this one and let me know where, I want to watch as well)

Get bear bangers and spray at Cabellas, Bass Pro and some Canadian Tire Stores. (also a dam fast pair of running shoes, just incase that shit does not work)
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:47 AM   #32
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I love this thread...the same discusion comes up every year on many forums..... the result is always the same. Don't bring a gun into Canada. (but if you do, I am with Drift10 on this one and let me know where, I want to watch as well)

Get bear bangers and spray at Cabellas, Bass Pro and some Canadian Tire Stores. (also a dam fast pair of running shoes, just incase that shit does not work)
Sounds like a nice group ride shaping up
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:59 AM   #33
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Sounds like a nice group ride shaping up
I'm in
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:07 AM   #34
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border crossing either direction

I often cross the border and always keep in my mind that the border/customs officer has the last say as to if I will be allowed to cross or not ( in nearly all situations). Regardless of how much research you do and what the regulations say, he can deny you access. For many reasons, some for security, or just call it his gut sense if you want; he can stop you from crossing. My advice is that if you on a holiday, the best plan is to make his job simple to allow you to cross. I've met nice sociable officials and some anal power tripping jerks going both ways. I'm not about to challenge an official and risk messing up my ride on the other side of the border.
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:44 PM   #35
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I looked into this for my 2003 ride to Alaska from Indiana (I have an Indiana carry permit). The Canadian government literature suggested that one could declare a gun at the border and obtain a temporary Canada firearms owners permit. And yes, there was also the permit to transport form, where you had to give specific dates and routes you would be traveling. I sent all of the above forms in to the office in BC and it all came back in about 2 weeks, denied. This is how I understood things at the time, based on what the denial letter stated:Step 1--you need to obtain an actual Canada firearms license for a restricted weapon, like a handgun. The "declare and register at the border option is not valid". It appears that to obtain the Canada license, one would have to fill out the forms and go to Canada for the requisite course and training. Even if all of this is done, and the Canada firearms permit is obtained, the "permit to transport" is discretionary and can be denied at the whim of the officials.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:40 PM   #36
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I come from a liberal state which also has some of the most liberal firearms laws in the US. A Vermont resident is permitted to carry just about anything in the open, and concealed carry is a gray area that has been studiously avoided by the courts as they don't want a precedent set. Concealed carry is generally allowed. It's a surprising state of affairs for such a blue state. As Vermont was a republic with a constitution that predates the Federal constitution, we have certain rights that really piss Washington off.

However, this is a Canadian thread.

Because Canada is a both a parliamentary democracy and a sovereign nation, they get to make their own rules. One of these rules is to restrict handguns generally, and most other firearms to a greater extent than they are in the states. This is something that the Canadian people have chosen to do through legal and transparent means. It's democracy in action. Their country, their rules.

Many Canadians are horrified at the thought that one would need to keep a firearm to defend against one's neighbors. As a matter of fact, many object to locking their doors.

One wouldn't entertain the thought of bringing a pistol to Russia to do a Trans-Siberia. It would be impossible through legal channels, although by all accounts the Siberian bears are quite hungry, and would eagerly consume a biker for "tea." It's simply not allowed. One could possibly get away with it for a short time by paying the proper graft. However, Russian jails are not noted for their pleasant accommodations. Different country, different rules.

Why is it so difficult for Americans to understand this issue? The United States Constitution only applies up to the US border. Once you cross into another nation, you've entered into a contract to play by their rules. If you can't do it, turn around.

I've been in the woods a good long time (over 40 years) and have never been threatened by a bear, although I've seen quite a few. I've come pretty close to having the snot kicked out of me by moose on more than one occasion, so I'm cautious around them.

I've been held at gun point by human beings. It's not pleasant. Give me bear or moose any time.

Many people use "wildlife" as an excuse to carry weapons that they can use to intimidate other people. At least for handguns, this won't play across the border.

Leave it at home.




Quote:
Originally Posted by beezerjuice View Post
I looked into this for my 2003 ride to Alaska from Indiana (I have an Indiana carry permit). The Canadian government literature suggested that one could declare a gun at the border and obtain a temporary Canada firearms owners permit. And yes, there was also the permit to transport form, where you had to give specific dates and routes you would be traveling. I sent all of the above forms in to the office in BC and it all came back in about 2 weeks, denied. This is how I understood things at the time, based on what the denial letter stated:Step 1--you need to obtain an actual Canada firearms license for a restricted weapon, like a handgun. The "declare and register at the border option is not valid". It appears that to obtain the Canada license, one would have to fill out the forms and go to Canada for the requisite course and training. Even if all of this is done, and the Canada firearms permit is obtained, the "permit to transport" is discretionary and can be denied at the whim of the officials.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:06 AM   #37
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After reading the NON-RESIDENT FIREARM DECLARATION sheet it looks like I can legally cross into Canada with a legal pistol or rifle. The gun I will bring has a barrel length longer than 4.1 inches is a 45 caliper semi automatic and is therefore legal according to the Canada government.
I think you will find nothing but trouble if you try to bring a handgun into Canada. You're better off with your bear spray and smart camping techniques. If I can't carry one, as a Canadian citizen, you can't either. If you absolutely have to have a gun with you, look into as short a 12g shotgun as you can carry with some slugs and 00 buckshot in it.
Even with a long gun or shotgun, every time you stop for a meal or anything, it'll be a nightmare going through the proper storage BS. Forget about going though any National parks too.
Second thought, just bring lots of beer.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:31 AM   #38
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Guns Into Canada

OK I give up. I will NOT be bringing a handgun into Canada. The last thing I need is to be hassled at the boarder or in Canada for any reason. I am simply an old man trying to see the great countryside in Canada & Alaska by motorcycle. Looking forward to my time in both seeing the sites, riding the roads and camping along the way.

Thank you ALL for your input

Jim
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:39 AM   #39
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I read a stat in another thread here that showed bear vs dog attacks, for bear fatalitles it showed 25 in the last 80 years, for dogs it was 35 last year. Kinda helps put things in perspective.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:06 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Canuman View Post
...
Why is it so difficult for Americans to understand this issue? The United States Constitution only applies up to the US border. Once you cross into another nation, you've entered into a contract to play by their rules. If you can't do it, turn around.

...
If it was more than a rhetorical question, it's because many Americans don't feel the US Constitution grants us any of the Bill of Rights; that they are inherent rights, only enumerated or recognized in the US Constitution. I don't think it's that Americans don't respect the laws of another country, but that they expect other countries recognize inherent rights.

When an American, as in this case, asks for clarification people jump all over him/her like he's got a problem with playing by the rules, when it's just that he needs to know and understand the rules (the rules in Canada may clearly prohibit firearms, but they are not presented that way). It appears the OP has paperwork that would indicate it's possible. Why not ask the question and want signficant clarification? Probably not because he doesn't respect the laws of Canada, but that he wants to make sure he understands and abides by them.

Think people from many other countries don't argue the merits of allowing the carrying of firearms in the US? There are plenty of posts in JM of an intolerant international audience bemoaning the US Constitution and the US culture. Why don't they just accept it as a cultural difference?
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:45 AM   #41
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In my short time as an inmate here, I've seen countless threads like this one.
Some were clearly trolls and others seemed to be honest questions.

I think the reason these can turn into dogpiles is that there have been so many over the years and this forum has a search function. There may also
be a bit of fatigue up here when it comes to current firearm issues across
the border and we certainly don't need to be dragged into it.

This particular thread has been amazingly civil and informative.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:46 AM   #42
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Enjoy your trip
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by jprism View Post
OK I give up. I will NOT be bringing a handgun into Canada. The last thing I need is to be hassled at the boarder or in Canada for any reason. I am simply an old man trying to see the great countryside in Canada & Alaska by motorcycle. Looking forward to my time in both seeing the sites, riding the roads and camping along the way.

Thank you ALL for your input

Jim

I grew up in the eastern suburbs of Vancouver BC. As a kid in the 60's and late 70's, I well remember my dad's 20 guage Beretta hung in the gun rack of his '72 Chev pu, it's just the way it was.

Restrictions in gun ownership have slightly changed recently, loosening up long gun operation a bit so as not to negatively effect hunters and farmers in rural areas. But, hand guns, short stub shotguns and military style weapons have always been very restricted around here. Bringing a hand gun across the border will most ceretainly mean they will keep it for you until you return back home,,,,not disclosing a hand gun at the border will probably mean the temporary loss of your entire vehicle for a while, and much heated conversation. Border agents at both sides of the US/Cdn border have unlimited powers exceeding that of even the governments, you are literally at their whim. Being a happy and enthusiastic traveller with no reason for distrust, you will be treated very well,,,,try to argue your right to carry in any other place than your home country will cause unending grief, monetary loss, and probably permanent exclusion from that country you want to visit. As a Canadian resident, I would find it unimaginably horrible to not be able to visit the USA. With that in mind, I treat the US border personell with the utmost friendliness, respect and happiness, even an agent who is having a bad day and being very rude is given the nicest response with a smile. It's a crappy job they have, imagine the low life swarff they have to deal with in society???

Keep the gun at home,,not needed here, as nobody carries here except the cops.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:25 AM   #44
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It's a simple process that should be easy, but with too many people in the chain of command who don't know where to find the rulebook it becomes almost impossible. Transporting it yourself should not be any more complicated than having it shipped by courier, but it is.

You've chosen the best option, don't bother. You won't need it until you get to Alaska anyway, where you can get one at any corner store.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:16 PM   #45
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It's a simple process that should be easy, but with too many people in the chain of command who don't know where to find the rulebook it becomes almost impossible. Transporting it yourself should not be any more complicated than having it shipped by courier, but it is.

You've chosen the best option, don't bother. You won't need it until you get to Alaska anyway, where you can get one at any corner store.


You won't need it in AK either unless you try and go shoulder to shoulder salmon fishing with them. If your plan is a motorcycle tour, it really ought not to be an issue. If you change your mind, there's plenty of places to pick one up. Alaskans love their guns and you can get them even at some grocery stores. If you coordinated with someone in state that was looking to buy something specific, you might be able to purchase one and sell it to them at a meet up before turning back.
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