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Old 04-22-2013, 04:06 AM   #1
C-Stain OP
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I've had it with the Conservative Government!

And while the straw broke the camel's back a long time ago, this recent story is absolutely disgusting!

Canadian Soldiers Ordered to Return Danger Pay

When is the next election?
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:22 AM   #2
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Disgusting is the right word, even if they were right it's such a small amount of money.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:03 AM   #3
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Tough issue, delayed implementation of a change to the rate resulted in overpayment - any overpayment regardless of whose error it is results in money being immediately clawed back. Likely the amount was taken in one payment, in other words the soldier lost it from a single paycheck or two in the same month. It happens all the time with every accounting error or policy change even for regular pay issues.

Also difficult is the policy to say one area is safer than another. It all sucks and historically soldiers chasing around the battle space see more dust ups, but then they are looking for the baddies and are in many ways an easier target. But then Kabul is rocketed weekly and ANA and ANP trainees turn their guns on their mentors quite frequently.

In no way to make light of the attack in Boston but I'll use it as an example. Would anyone feel less safe in Boston now or to run at any marathon event? What if it happened again...and again and again would it change your behaviour and your sense of security? So to bring it back to Afghanistan, attacks have happend in every are again and again and again. The frequency is higher in some areas than others but general speaking where there are NATO soldiers there are people who want to fight them, to say nothing of the infighting at a trible level or the growing criminal activities (ie kidnapping) It isn't always chaos and I'd feel pretty ok moving around kabul in a soft skin vehicle so long as I was moving in civilian attire and not as part of a routine and had my weapons.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:28 AM   #4
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I would think that IF you are sent to an active area of the world you are now in danger for your life, which in it's own should result in danger pay if there is such a thing. Yes I believe if you are in the military there should be pay differences for someone sitting behind a desk and the guy holding the gun all day and night wondering if it's time to cash in his chips! So that would mean, if you are deployed outside of your homeland to an area where you could get shot doing your job, that demands danger pay...plian and simple.....IF there is such a thing and obviously there is.
I didn't know there was for the military, I figured that if you signed up that was a job requirement that you understood you could be shipped out tomorrow to a dangerous place.....part and parcel of the job? But seeing as there is a difference they should get it!

IF, you paid it out, even by mistake...too bad in this case IMHO. They earned it IMHO!

I think it's time to get my voting big boy pants back out ready for the next election and do the right thing....get frig'in Harpooner out of office once and for all!
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:09 PM   #5
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Peter McKay said today that it won't need to be paid back.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:03 PM   #6
CanadianX
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Originally Posted by Chilipepper View Post
Peter McKay said today that it won't need to be paid back.
^Interesting.

Danger pay has different rates depending on assessed threat/risk levels for a given area (area vs particular job) It was an often debated issue among soldiers in Afghanistan and many looked down their noses at those in KAF as REMFs and FOBBITS (Rear Echelon MF'ers and Forward Operating Base Hobbits - never leave the shire...) All crap IMHO. Each came with it's own challenge and risk.

Lots of different allowances, danger pay being one and hardship being another. I'm not sure when the policy of danger pay was implemented but others such as corrections officers get it as well. Nurses and doctors have argued for it in the past like during the N1 Flu. For the CF it is extra $ to acknowledge extra risk and hardship endured. Rates vary as I said based on assessed risks but also increase with more tours. Kind of follows the idea that if you keep running out into traffic eventually your luck will run out. Also acknowledges the tempo of operations and the effect it has had on members and their families.

The extra pay and tax exemptions add up to be a bit of a windfall. But you have to ask yourself, would you place a 8 month long (10 or 12mths in some cases) bet on your life or limbs for and extra $20-25k with the caveat that during the 8 months you have to live in a dust bowl and be exposed to all sorts of unpleasant things.

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Old 04-22-2013, 03:03 PM   #7
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They must be running for cover after a story like this got out!

I got my big boy pants out now, so they are finished....my singular vote will be all it takes, I bet!
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:05 PM   #8
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This has little or nothing to do with the Conservative gov't. The treasury board is appointed by parliament as a whole and its rules are extremely fucked up. They are constantly changing the rules, heartless penny pinching pricks.
If you really want to go apeshit on the Harper gov't please keep in mind that they were also the gov't that allowed the tax exemption status for dangerous area deployments, which the liberal and ndp voted against. They have been forced to make some hard and cruel decisions lately but I fear the damage would be much harsher.
The Trudeau years put our men in rubber boots, Chretien's press releases listed every death or injury in Bosnia as a traffic accident, close but hitting a landmine in an Iltis doesn't really count.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:15 PM   #9
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When are the politicians taking a pay cut?
Or the senators for that matter. They don't have to pay back on their fcukups.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:15 PM   #10
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if your shipped off to protect and serve, your made to hold a gun in another country to protect yourself for any reason... danger pay... it isn't really to difficult to understand....
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:43 PM   #11
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Hazardous duty pay aside, you ever wonder how they arrive at a soldier's pay rate, their salary?

Well, they equate them with the civil service. So, your average working ranking rank as an nco is as a corporal. That rate of pay is the same as a clerk in Tunney's Pasture. For those not in the know, Tunney's is an area in Ottawa that houses many government departments like Stats Can, Supply & Services, that sort of thing.

So a desk clerk working 8 to 4, home for supper every night, no weekends, no out of town work, and the big one: never deploys, gets paid the same as our guys who sacrifice so much. And their families sacrifice just as much. Dad or mom just isn't home when they learn to walk, score that first goal, go on that first date. Much is missed.


As mentioned before, life as a soldier under the liberal gubmints was always much more painful. First place they'd cut, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Remember when Chretien got voted in, and he promised to nuke the helicopter deal? He did it 2 weeks after he got in power. Thing is: Because of money already spent, plus the penalties, if he'd not killed it and just paid the bill, then we'd have had the birds for 10% more than the cost of cancelling. We are talking hundreds of millions of my fucking tax dollars. So we flew birds older than the aircrews, that were initially intended to have a 15 year life span ended up going 40+ years. Pre-flight briefing was this: The birds leak hydraulic fluid, you're gonna wear it. If it stops dripping on you, tell the crew NOW! We're out of fluid, next is a crash. And they would put it on the deck right smart, top up the tanks, and carry on.


Just a sample here. Could tell you some real interesting stories sometime over a beer or three, I worked the head shed for many years.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by C-Stain View Post

When is the next election?
Not soon enough.

The problem as i see it is that 65% those who voted, voted against him last time and still he got in. We in the east are such small potatoes that we are powerless against him/them, our votes really don't count. But i vote so i am allowed to complain.

Remember Harpers words that go something like, we won't recognize Canada when he is done. He is right we won't, all the good will be gone.

Don't get me going.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:24 AM   #13
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Any bets that the Prime Ministers security level does not drop depending on where he is going. So in that light why should a soldiers danger pay drop?
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:00 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ThumperGuy View Post
Not soon enough.

The problem as i see it is that 65% those who voted, voted against him last time and still he got in. We in the east are such small potatoes that we are powerless against him/them, our votes really don't count. But i vote so i am allowed to complain.

Remember Harpers words that go something like, we won't recognize Canada when he is done. He is right we won't, all the good will be gone.

Don't get me going.

I'll have to remember this classic. Another east coaster complaining he's under-represented. In a land where the west continuously feeds the permanent "have not" provinces east of Ontario, has been over-represented by all levels of government, population wise AND land mass wise since confederation. You guys have been helped along for so many decades you don't even care where the cash comes from anymore. Makes me throw up. How do you think we feel feeding all you, and all that is heard is "more, more".

So the great new savior has been anointed,,,a new Trudeau mania for all of us to get punch drunk on. Give me a break. Friggin' lightweight. Fluff. And don't get me started on the commies.
Here's a free investement tip from myself. If and when there is a new government elected, that is not conservative, start buying U.S. dollars right away, and reap the benefits as our dollar crashes as investors get scared away by these nutbars.
Be aware,,,,I despise the current federal government. Always have. But I have the presence of mind and thought to filter out any pre-concieved political ideaology to observe the current situation that,,,while I rate the current assembly of gangsters only a 3 out of 10,,,,the others garner but a 1, or 2 out of 10. So picking the least worst is the order of the day rather than picking the best. You would be well served to truly think out the effects of an alternative to this current group before jumping both feet into another pile of steaming dung.

We are quickly approaching a time in western society where nobody will be happy with what they get out of society, out of government services,,,where 'government' builds a wall around itself to prevent shrinking in size. By government, I mean ALL government, not just the Federal MP's which cost just 4% of total government cost to tax payers. We cannot enter into a political regime that forces a tax/bylaw regime to business that pushed ALL of our provinces into have not provinces. We cannot afford for even 1 month an assembly of Quebecs, or Ontarios, or Nova Scotias. The death of our country financially will be very quick and not sweet.

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Old 04-24-2013, 10:04 AM   #15
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Steve,
Care to give your thoughts on BC's upcoming election and what effects it will have on the province's economy?

Rod
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