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Old 04-23-2013, 10:03 AM   #1
Metalsapo OP
R.E. Ordoņez
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Guatemala C.A.
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SPROCKET change?

I will make a story to explain myself, i dont speak perfect english so i must ask a little patience and basic english words please, the technical stuff is something im still learning.
Hi for a F650GS twin i am thinking the following...

The problem is that i am not an expert in off road and still practicing allot of it, im starting to feel really confortable with it and always careful in strange paths, specially in downhills, and here comes the story.

When first gear is selected, the terrain is off road downhills with some curves.
I let go the front brake because of the curve, and suddenly infront of me appears a pickup going in my same direction full of people trying to get somewhere (In Guatemala public transportation is limited and pickups do the job in off road terrain in far away small villages) and in the opposite lane another car appears so i must reduce the velocity very fast, without skidding the back wheel so the bike does not turn with the wheel blocked and the engine brake is to loose to make me brake, so this complication could make me react with my Survival Reactions with fear and could make me brake harder and loose control, fall off the cliff,
crash with the back of the pickup or killed by the oposite lane transport, so, the sprocket configuration will help me with this?

This is one of my three crashes off road, learned allot this time.



So, been there and done that, jajajja, to the left side the nice guy who helped me a little later to put the bike up.
So what will the sprockets do in the motorcycle?
It will make it less efficient with gas?
Torque?
What can i do to have a little more of engine brake to make me go downhill a little slower and in control.

Also is good to mention that the crash happened because i was afraid of the speed in the moment, and the terrain, the curve is like 50 feet away from me and the downhill was getting steeper, so i think that first gear would do its work and brake me little by little with back braking help, and just having guts to let the bike go down and counter balance in the corner and problem solved. This is a 100km off road next to a little lake called Ayarza, anyway the important thing here is: what do you think? thanks.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:07 AM   #2
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Learn to use your front brake going downhill!
Engine breaking on steep hill will just lead to losing stability and it will not slow you down enough.
You got ABS so go for it on the front brakes!!!
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Indy Unlimited screwed with this post 04-23-2013 at 10:39 AM
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:59 AM   #3
Metalsapo OP
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Mmmmmm....

Quote:
You got ABS so go for it on the front brakes!!!
No Abs for my bike, first model in Guatemala. 2008 show room bike.
Yes i do use the front brake in straight downhill paths, anyway, first answer
score is.
Sprocket
No change 1
Change 0
Thanks, i will practice more.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:09 PM   #4
BlueLghtning
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I don't own an F650/800GS so I don't know specifics on this bike how its geared stock and playing off road, but generally speaking if you are doing a majority of your riding off road or slow going, a sprocket change to give you lower gearing can really help. A lot of how a change affects the bike depends how big the gear spread between each gear is to begin with. One advantage of using a sprocket range with over all lower gearing is it puts the gears closer together which can help in off road where gear changes aren't such a huge change.

Sometimes there's enough room to play to get a bit lower gearing without sacrificing road performance. Other guys that own these bikes can chime in on what they have found works for them in their scenarios to give you some ideas.

So what I gathered from your story was that while you are in 1st gear, you are not finding that low enough for your liking with enough engine braking? Do you ever get out of 1st gear while playing off road or what gears do you use the most? In optimal dirt bike world, you try to get where 1st gear where it can be a really crawl gear and 2nd gear can be good to use from almost a crawl on up and sometimes into 3rd gears and higher depending on the terrain. You still have 4-6th gears for pavement and faster dirt sections, although they will overall be lower gears.

Of course the downside of doing a drastic gearing change is it is going to make your overall 6th gear lower so that when you are on faster road sections, the bike will be revving more. However, if you generally aren't going faster than 55-60mph, this may not be a big deal if at all affect you?

I do agree that you should practice more efficient braking while off road. Regardless of gearing, you should be comfortable in coming to a stop off road in steep terrain, but with that said, overall lower gearing would help keep your speed down to begin with. You just have to find the right gearing combination that works for you, but if you are focusing on mostly off road riding, then I don't think you can go wrong going lower in the gearing.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:18 PM   #5
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Even without ABS you need to learn to pull in the clutch and use the brakes
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:33 PM   #6
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Practice and slow down a little bit until you get more confident :)
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:46 PM   #7
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Changing the rear sprocket enough to do any good would cut your top speed WAY down. Using the rear brake along with the front one will accomplish the same thing. Just get lots of practice, you want all the braking you can get before the wheels lock.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:00 PM   #8
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same experience

I went from R1200gs to a 650 x-challenge so I could learn to ride off-road. (140kg dry weight) A lot comes down to confidence. For me, that came down to practice.
Once I found out how hard I could push the suspension, the better it was for me. Then I learned what is slippery and what is not. Good tyres help to. (Tires?)

I now have an F800gs. I am not going to take it in the mud, but I have had it down some reasonably rough tracks. The F650 twin should be better in some ways. Lower to the ground.

I would stick with standard gearing. Unless you want to do more technical riding.
I would not so it for engine breaking. I learned to pull in clutch and use brakes.

Good luck
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:49 PM   #9
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practise, practise & practise!Learn to use the brakes and the sliding of the rear wheel. And as epic said, go a bit slower till you get more confident! ABS ain't gone help you in the dirt.. all dirt bikes don't have them..
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:05 PM   #10
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Buy the counter sprocket for a F800gs. It is 1 tooth smaller than the F650( 16 teeth vs 17). That is about a 6% reduction in the gearing.

You can go smaller, but it does effect rpm at speed. I think maybe your issue is really lack of experience? You can use both brakes in dirt. You just need to modulate the amount and that takes practice.

Touratech will probably be cheaper than BMW.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:31 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
Buy the counter sprocket for a F800gs. It is 1 tooth smaller than the F650( 16 teeth vs 17). That is about a 6% reduction in the gearing.

You can go smaller, but it does effect rpm at speed. I think maybe your issue is really lack of experience? You can use both brakes in dirt. You just need to modulate the amount and that takes practice.

Touratech will probably be cheaper than BMW.
If someone can tell me how easy it is to ship to Guatemala from Canada, I can send a good used 16T to Metalsapo for shipping cost or less. Then he can see for himself!
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:46 AM   #12
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If someone can tell me how easy it is to ship to Guatemala from Canada, I can send a good used 16T to Metalsapo for shipping cost or less. Then he can see for himself!
I'm starting to believe that you are a serial mugger having all spare parts in the world hanging around in your garage

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Old 04-24-2013, 08:07 AM   #13
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I'm starting to believe that you are a serial mugger having all spare parts in the world hanging around in your garage


See my ads in "Tent Space" and "Couch Surfing".


Also have many items in the Flea Market.

Don't make me post pics Loutre.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:18 AM   #14
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Metalsapo: You may know this already. If you are new to off road here are a couple of tips that may help on down hills. Shift your weight to the back of the bike. Get more weight over the back tire. It give the back more traction making its braking more effective. If you are standing or up on the tank while going down steep hills most of your weight is on the front wheel which makes it really "grabby" when you try to apply front brake because it has all the traction. Shifting your weight to the back improves engine braking, rear braking and makes the front brake easier to apply gradually.

Of course someone on here will disagree with this.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:10 AM   #15
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See my ads in "Tent Space" and "Couch Surfing".


Also have many items in the Flea Market.

Don't make me post pics Loutre.
A whole cartel? Dear goodness, Canadians are cheeky bstrds after all
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