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Old 04-26-2013, 06:54 AM   #16
The Griz
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PS Ever want to know what WD40 really is? : http://www.wired.com/science/discove...st_whatsinside
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:01 AM   #17
Capt.saveaho OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
Not to take this thread to that place but these two suggestions are a huge no-no with sealed o or x ring chains.

Firstly, WD40 is a penetrant and degreaser, with minimal lubricating properties. It penetrates PAST the rubber sealing rings and clears out the grease that the chain manufacturer put in there. Once the WD40 clears out that grease in behind the sealing rings it is impossible to replace it. It pretty much turns your o or x ring chain into an unlubricated chain. So, WD40, not recommended. I know, I know, 'you've been using it for years and haven't seen any problems with it'. That is an honest response. However, the damage WD40 does is not visible to the naked eye. It exists behind the rubber o or x type sealing rings.

Secondly, spraying the chain with water is never necessary or recommended when cleaning an o or x ring chain. The main reason is that the water, if pressurized, can blow past the rubber sealing rings and get in where the grease is sealed in by the manufacturer. This will cause rust, corrosion, and break down of the grease that the chain manufacturer put in there. Secondly, water will make the chain rust in no time. Water to clean chain? No.

Sorry, dude, but I couldn't let this one go unnoticed.
All valid points but I have a hard time believing that the O rings last as long as the chain can. In a perfect world where I'm baller rich yeah the O ring chain doesn't need anything other then a good scrub to get rid of dirt. I just don't see how rubber lasts as long abrasion wise as steal.

I'm always willing to be schooled, I'm young and ignant. Hahahaha
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:15 AM   #18
The Griz
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Originally Posted by Capt.saveaho View Post
All valid points but I have a hard time believing that the O rings last as long as the chain can. In a perfect world where I'm baller rich yeah the O ring chain doesn't need anything other then a good scrub to get rid of dirt. I just don't see how rubber lasts as long abrasion wise as steal.

I'm always willing to be schooled, I'm young and ignant. Hahahaha
You make an interesting point too though, about how long the o or x rings wil last compared to the chain. That'd be something I'd like to know.

Anyway, I was just stating what I know. Hope I didn't offend!
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:41 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
You make an interesting point too though, about how long the o or x rings wil last compared to the chain. That'd be something I'd like to know.
I believe it is obvious the orings keep the chain joints lubed. The chain itself carries the engine power through its steel parts. Different tasks, different materials. If the orings fail, the joints corrode and stick. I do not see the reason for comparing the longevity of the two parts of the chain

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:56 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by gefr View Post
I believe it is obvious the orings keep the chain joints lubed. The chain itself carries the engine power through its steel parts. Different tasks, different materials. If the orings fail, the joints corrode and stick. I do not see the reason for comparing the longevity of the two parts of the chain
The o rings do not provide the lubrication for the chain. Your misunderstanding of that is why it confuses you. The o ring is the seal that hold the grease in and keep the crud out. Here is a pic that explains:



You can see in the diagram how the o ring's sole responsibility is to keep the lube in, and grime out.

Though the o rings, lube, and actual metal parts of the chain serve different individual purposes, they work in unison in order to make the chain work properly. As an example: o ring fails, lube goes away, chain wears faster. This is why failing o rings will effect the life of the chain.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:02 AM   #21
The Griz
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Also, the diagram shows how externally lubricating an o or x ring chain ONLY lubricates and effects the OUTER surfaces of the chain and the sprockets. Externally lubing an o or x ring chain will increase the life of the surfaces that come into contact between the chain and sprockets ONLY. The inner metal parts are dependent upon the lube that exists behind the sealing o or x ring. This is why WD40 and pressurized water are a bad move. These things break down or blast out the lube behind the o or x rings. Once that lube has been pushed out or broken down by the WD40, it's game over for lubrication inside the chain behind the o or x rings.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:41 AM   #22
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The o-rings will protect the grease from contamination and loss.... for a while.
However, over time, water and dirt will get past the o-rings and contaminate or remove the grease. Chains are advertised as "Sealed", but they will not be sealed forever.
The scott-oiler cleans and protects the chain and sprocket as you ride. I have Scott-oilers on my KLR and Ninja100 and my chains last a long time and almost never need adjustment.
There are times when the scott-oiler can't keep up with deep sand and dirt, so I turn it off, rather than create a grinding paste of oil and dirt. Then once I am out of the really heavy dirt I turn the oiler on high to flush the dirt off the chain.
Overall, my quality of motorcycling life is better with a scott-oiler.
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:54 PM   #23
gefr
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Originally Posted by gefr
I believe it is obvious the orings keep the chain joints lubed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
The o rings do not provide the lubrication for the chain. Your misunderstanding of that is why it confuses you. The o ring is the seal that hold the grease in and keep the crud out. Here is a pic that explains:

Yep you are saying the same thing, why argue?
Cheers.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:24 PM   #24
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Cool2 chain lube

For the last couple of years i've been using some lube from Sidewinder racing and have had great result's, having had a couple of bike shops and been riding since 1966 thou I only do maybe 15-25 k a year I feel like I have have a little experience, but each their own, by the way it's x ring for me
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
Not to take this thread to that place but these two suggestions are a huge no-no with sealed o or x ring chains.

Firstly, WD40 is a penetrant and degreaser, with minimal lubricating properties. It penetrates PAST the rubber sealing rings and clears out the grease that the chain manufacturer put in there. Once the WD40 clears out that grease in behind the sealing rings it is impossible to replace it. It pretty much turns your o or x ring chain into an unlubricated chain. So, WD40, not recommended. I know, I know, 'you've been using it for years and haven't seen any problems with it'. That is an honest response. However, the damage WD40 does is not visible to the naked eye. It exists behind the rubber o or x type sealing rings.

Secondly, spraying the chain with water is never necessary or recommended when cleaning an o or x ring chain. The main reason is that the water, if pressurized, can blow past the rubber sealing rings and get in where the grease is sealed in by the manufacturer. This will cause rust, corrosion, and break down of the grease that the chain manufacturer put in there. Secondly, water will make the chain rust in no time. Water to clean chain? No.

Sorry, dude, but I couldn't let this one go unnoticed.



Simple truth is it works, in racing conditions.
Point is , that if you [COLOR="White"]clean and lubricate your chain regularly[/COLOR] it will work beautifully for a long time! Seen some disgusting chains , and they usally go with an unkept bike and complaints of things not working. It's simple maintenance and it does'nt have to cost a 20.
have you actually tried it?
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:41 AM   #26
The Griz
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Originally Posted by Gimme 2 View Post


Simple truth is it works, in racing conditions.
Point is , that if you [COLOR="White"]clean and lubricate your chain regularly[/COLOR] it will work beautifully for a long time! Seen some disgusting chains , and they usally go with an unkept bike and complaints of things not working. It's simple maintenance and it does'nt have to cost a 20.
have you actually tried it?
Yup, I've tried WD40 on a chain a long time ago before I knew what I know now. My experience is that it's great at degreasing and cleaning, and that's it. It has very light lubricating properties. The light lubricant that is in WD40 can't handle what a heavy-use motorcycle chain will throw at it. The reason your chain is staying clean is because the very light lube that WD40 has is getting heated up and evaporated off of your chain almost immediately. It leaves your chain completely dry after the first few minutes of riding. A dry chain is a clean chain, true. However, a completely dry chain with no lubrication will wear faster.

The best thing you can use, especially in the dirt, is a wax-based lube. Maxima Chain Wax is great. But the DuPont Teflon Chain Saver is basically the same thing with the addition of PTFE (Teflon) for added dry slipperiness. The wax-based lubes lubricate but don't attract dirt. You get the benefits of a dry unlubed chain in the category of dirt adhesion, but the benefit of lubrication and wear prevention as well.
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The Griz screwed with this post 04-27-2013 at 09:09 AM
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:58 AM   #27
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I use ATF as a cleaner,and whatever 90wt kinda stuff I have laying around,Scott oilers are a great idea,I like to examine the chain regularly and so I just use a stand or if Im on a trip whatever is available to prop the bike up against the kick stand and clean.I do about 12000 miles a year.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:20 AM   #28
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Got my scottoiler with my bike when I bought it.

My experience is its really messy leaves 4 or 5 oil stains on my shop floor every time I use it!

Not going to bother filling it up again once all the oil has run out.

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Old 04-27-2013, 06:44 PM   #29
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I think many people miss the point of lubing a chain. Yes all that has been said about the o ring is true. But the lube is needed between the roller and the bush. Look at the diagram again. Dont tell me these parts dont need lube ??
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:02 AM   #30
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Cool2 ScotOilers Rule- YMMV

I've used Scotoilers for years after the experierence of a Yamaha FZR1000 running the Cabo 1000 (illegal roadrace the length of Baja from San Ysidro, CA to Cabo San Lucas, Baja California Sur) without any chain adjustment needed- and without oil slung all over the back of the bike or rear rim. The bike ran over 170mph in places... ...a lot of places, for over 1,000 miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
Not to take this thread to that place but these two suggestions are a huge no-no with sealed o or x ring chains.

Firstly, WD40 is a penetrant and degreaser, with minimal lubricating properties



Sorry, dude, but I couldn't let this one go unnoticed.
And neither could I. Back it up with some numbers... here's a quantitative analysis of using WD40 alone on motorcycle drive chains (I've posted this a time or ten) done by Bob who is a Mechanical Engineer, inventor of the "Thermo Bob"

http://www.watt-man.com/uploads/WD40experiment.pdf

Griz, if you think your Teflon spray isn't penetrating the "sealed" O/X/W-rings to get inside the chain rollers you're mistaken it does- Teflon is one of the slippery-est substances we've invented

-------------

Anybody who doesn't like or want their Scotoiler, feel free to send it my way. They work great- and for those who complain about the mess, learn to adjust it. It ain't rocket science, just twist the top. Turn it up to wash the chain then back down once you're out of the dirt/mud.

Capt.saveaho, I'd highly recommend your dad get one- go for the "Touring Model" as it has higher capacity & mounts easily. Hanging one in the exhaust of hot air from the radiator isn't a good idea as it will change the viscosity of the oil you use
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