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Old 04-26-2013, 04:04 PM   #16
Two Moto Kiwis OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRW View Post
All of my experiences with CJ has been stellar.
Always emailed or called me back within 24hrs.
Did you contact him directly or via dual sport warehouse?

Side note...
Looks like that shaft got extremely hot. Just look at the tempering colors.
I recall mine being a uniform color upon installation. even the old one for the most part.
I aspire to the service you had, all contact although minimal was direct.

Interesting your take on the shaft, I have not seen another so cannot compare, this is starting to go where I want at least to find answers.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by tacosupreme View Post
Galling is adhesive wear. Galling is caused by macroscopic transfer of material between metallic surfaces, during transverse motion (sliding). Galling occurs frequently whenever metal surfaces are in contact, sliding against each other, especially with poor lubrication. Galling often occurs in high load, low speed applications, but also occurs in high-speed applications with very little load. Galling is a common problem in bearings and pistons in engines, and many other industrial operations. Galling is distinctive from gouging or scratching in that galling involves the visible transfer of material as it is adhesively pulled from one surface, leaving it stuck to the other in the form of a raised lump. Unlike other forms of wear, galling is usually not a gradual process, but occurs quickly and spreads rapidly as the raised lumps induce more galling.


The question is what caused the friction? Casting residue? Sand? Are there any nasties in the overflow tank? Galling lumps from the old shaft still stuck to the case?

http://ktm950.info/how/Orange%20Gara..._overhaul.html
This stands to reason and I will have more of a study of this.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazybrit View Post
Many possible reasons why someone isn't responding. Without more info "It seems they are all over you when you ask questions when a potential sale is being made and couldn’t give a shit post sale" seems a little speculative. If you want a definitive answer, you know what you need to do.
That would be to call face to face and not rely on emailing!

I imagine it's kinda difficult to immediately get back to a customer if you are in the middle of higher Bavaria with no Internet connection when you've got a vague email asking why a water pump is scorned, failed or what have you?

I did not infer being out of reach was an excuse, merely a bi product of a current temporary condition. But broken ( as you described in your original unaltered post)? Maybe not a great situation for the OP. but what seems to be broken is communication between what the OP expects and what's within the responsibility of the parts maker... which is???
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSurfer View Post
That would be to call face to face and not rely on emailing
Agreed!

Quote:
I imagine it's kinda difficult to immediately get back to a customer if you are in the middle of higher Bavaria with no Internet connection when you've got a vague email asking why a water pump is scorned, failed or what have you?
Like I said, the OP hasn't really specified who he spoke to, so I'm going to defer judgement.

That said, *if* I contacted a company and heard back from someone who was presently or would soon be "in the middle of higher Bavaria" and wasn't going to be responsive for "(These emails are over) a couple of months" I'd expect them to tell me this so my expectations were appropriately set, or better, assign the issue to someone who was available.

Who knows what happened but there isn't some special dispensation for businesses run by inmates.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Moto Kiwis View Post
but apparently we are not allowed to talk about failures from the CJ camp?
Where has this been said? The comments to your original post were because it was rather pointless. No details on product in question, no details on company. Just a complaint that you were being ignored.

A better timeline in the first post would help. It sounds like they asked for more info and you supplied it. I get the impression you got one more e-mail confirming receipt of the info but no replies to your subsequent followups. I've no idea what has happened, maybe the subsequent e-mails were not received. Phone really is the best way to resolve this.

You can talk about failures of a product, CJ or otherwise. That said I think it would have been better if you'd just posted the failure pics from the start and said "hey guys what do you think of this" and left the whole "I'm being ignored" bit until the thread had developed a bit.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSurfer View Post
Last I talked to CJ, he had quite an ambitious European Adventure ride happening. So if he isn't responding, he's not avoiding any responsibilities to customers. He's simply doing more of his R&D.

But I'm not quite sure what your situation is and what you expect out of him at this point.

Did you buy the shaft new? Did you damage the shaft overheating it and you want it replaced as a second owner.

Here is a helpful hint... You must always put yourself in the seat of the parts maker when figuring out what is owed you. How far would you go as a manufacturer to help out someone and still have your 1st hand customers best interest at hand?

As Crazybrit recommended way early on... Deal with it face to face... phone to phone in this instance.

If you have any fears about CJ being hostile or unsympathetic that's an incorrect assumption. He's a very sympathetic and compassionate small parts manufacturer.

But keep in mind he, like all small parts makers, are
1. Not mind readers.
2. Not charity workers.
3. Extremely and ambitiously busy.
4. Very self conscious about their reputations.
5. Already have limited time and resources for making their businesses profitable.

For those individuals lucky enough to travel the world by motorcycle I envy you. However, it may not be up to so many others, including the responsibility of small parts manufacturers to help facilitate your lifestyle.

Just trying to offer you a fresh perspective.
Heya desert Surfer, thanks for your reply.

This has been going on since Jan 22nd and I know he has not been away that long and I know he has participation here on ADV thus he is not that far "out of touch"

All I wanted from him was a reasonable reply about why, similar I guess to tacosupreme has given or offered, not that hard eh, not wanting a new shaft as I have already made that clear.

To clarify the shaft was in the bike, the bike had a number of CJ components on it which was a big drawcard for the purchase of the bike and thus far our drawcard has turned into a cash flogging monster of failed CJ parts, as stated I am not asking for ANYTHING from CJ except a reasonable answer/guess or whatever however sending the shaft into him has netted nothing hence we are here now.

I have tried and tried keeping it beneath the table but nothing and there was original phone calls thus not a surprise so yes have been trying to deal with it.

But keep in mind he, like all small parts makers, are
1. Not mind readers. He has the shaft and emails and phone calls so he does not need to read my mind just my emails
2. Not charity workers. Not asking for anything other than reply
3. Extremely and ambitiously busy. Not to busy to sell??
4. Very self conscious about their reputations. Well he could reply to my emails after our initial contact??
5. Already have limited time and resources for making their businesses profitable. ....still not asking for mass time or any money or product

I don't expect CJ to facilitate my lifestyle and have not asked him to, I only want to know a probable/likely cause of failure, that will cost him a 2 minute reply and keep a customer happy??? what is wrong with that?, lets cut the crap as he spends alot of time here on ADV (and there is nothing wrong with that) so why no response.

While I appreciate your fresh perspective it has been the same crap for me since January hence I bought it to the table from behind the scenes, always try and sort stuff out before bringing it to ADV, especially this kind of thing as I don't like to bag anyone off, if you see above I still didn't want to "call him out" and I am not asking for a replacement, compensation or anything suchlike.

Anyway, I am going to explore tacosupremes post as this is the most reasonable info I have had, bearing in mind CJ has the shaft in hand and NOT just pictiures.

Any metallurgists here want to chime in would be great as I still am curious as to the failure, that is all.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:05 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by crazybrit View Post

Like I said, the OP hasn't really specified who he spoke to, so I'm going to defer judgement.
CJ himself
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:07 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazybrit View Post
You can talk about failures of a product, CJ or otherwise. That said I think it would have been better if you'd just posted the failure pics from the start and said "hey guys what do you think of this" and left the whole "I'm being ignored" bit until the thread had developed a bit.

Yep, and DesertSurfer was spot on as well. I've had nothing but positive interactions with CJ, and if he's out and about testing/developing/mad scientist-inventing-another-impressive-piece-of-LC8-gear, I'd say sit back and wait a bit. I dare say we've all benefitted from this.

Kiwi, if you're hung up somewhere and need parts in the meantime, inmates tend to be amazingly responsive to those in need.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:41 PM   #24
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Previous SE owner is your aim...

Hey TwoMotoKiwis,

I remember when you bought that flogged SE sight unseen. And I don't understand why you continue to blame CJ for the ill wills of it to date. As I said back when you bought that bike... At some point you are just going to have to "own up to it".

I have complete confidence CJ will have a professional opinion on possible waterpump shaft overheating.

But I would have no confidence in an SE purchased from the wrong hands. The SE is by far a more sensitive bike to own then the Adventure and requires more savvy care and more moxie in riding technique.


Another piece of helpful advice in long range travel would be carry spares of everything or at least have spares available at every port of call.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:07 PM   #25
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I remember when you bought that flogged SE sight unseen. And I don't understand why you continue to blame CJ for the ill wills of it to date.
Agreed.

You'd think after kicking up such a fuss the OP would be after a new shaft or a refund. But nope, "I am not asking for a replacement, compensation or anything suchlike".

So did the OP buy the shaft used and install it ..... previously: "So this is the part in question a waterpump with +/- 700 miles, that comes with a "CJD offers a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty" (to the first purchaser hence we are not asking for anything except answers)"

Or did it come already installed on a used bike he bought?

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Old 04-26-2013, 08:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by DesertSurfer View Post
And I don't understand why you continue to blame CJ for the ill wills of it to date.

I have complete confidence CJ will have a professional opinion on possible waterpump shaft overheating. .
Are you dumb or what???

Not blaming CJ just wanted a fucking answer and after 4 months of no response I bring it up here, not unreasonable.

When/if CJ does reply, then at least we will know, stop sucking up and realize I am not blaming him I just want to know cause of failure, too much for you???

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazybrit View Post
Agreed.

You'd think after kicking up such a fuss the OP would be after a new shaft or a refund. But nope, "I am not asking for a replacement, compensation or anything suchlike".

So did the OP buy the shaft used and install it ..... previously: "So this is the part in question a waterpump with +/- 700 miles, that comes with a "CJD offers a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty" (to the first purchaser hence we are not asking for anything except answers)"

Or did it come already installed on a used bike he bought?
Op bought a new KTM shaft and had it professionally installed at his own expense, quite frankly I don't want a CJ shaft if they last 700 km, I wouldn't mind buying one if I could get a straight answer but after 4 months of no replies???WTF why would I buy one off him? and to answer your next question yes we carry a spare.

You guys are getting way hot under the collar and need to settle down a bit, I still don't want a fucking shaft, just a reasonable response as to why it crapped out, forget the rest of the shit with the rest of it as I have not talked about it here and don't want to, you have missed the point completely.

All I asked is how to deal with the issue without causing a mound of crap, you guys are just bloody comical.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Moto Kiwis View Post
Op bought a new KTM shaft and had it professionally installed at his own expense,
You're not complaining about a KTM shaft so the above isn't relevant.

Rather a CJ one. So the failed CJ shaft was previously installed on a used bike you bought? WOW!

Quote:
you guys are just bloody comical.
I think, if you want to see the comedy here, you should look within.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:20 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Moto Kiwis View Post
Op bought a new KTM shaft and had it professionally installed
The condition that caused the galling would have destroyed ANY shaft subjected to the same friction. Maybe molybdenum or nickel boron coating would have lasted a few more miles....or not. Whatever condition caused the failure is not a result of the shaft, rather the bearing, seals, and case it is installed in. My guess is that the system wasn't properly flushed, grit worked it's way into the seals, and the friction galled the shaft. Obviously under those conditions a hardened shaft would last longer than a factory one. If I installed it, I would warranty it because I did not flush the system right. If I sold you the shaft but didn't touch the bike I would tell you to pound sand. For what it's worth I'm not defending anyone, if it was a crap part I would tell you.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by crazybrit View Post
You're not complaining about a KTM shaft so the above isn't relevant.

Rather a CJ one. So the failed CJ shaft was previously installed on a used bike you bought? WOW!



I think, if you want to see the comedy here, you should look within.
No prob with the KTM shaft so no problem and yeap been looking within for 4 months now that is why we are here now.

If CJ is such the man I still welcome a response which is what this thread is all about, nothing more so deal with that.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:06 PM   #30
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The condition that caused the galling would have destroyed ANY shaft subjected to the same friction. Maybe molybdenum or nickel boron coating would have lasted a few more miles....or not. Whatever condition caused the failure is not a result of the shaft, rather the bearing, seals, and case it is installed in. My guess is that the system wasn't properly flushed, grit worked it's way into the seals, and the friction galled the shaft. Obviously under those conditions a hardened shaft would last longer than a factory one. If I installed it, I would warranty it because I did not flush the system right. If I sold you the shaft but didn't touch the bike I would tell you to pound sand. For what it's worth I'm not defending anyone, if it was a crap part I would tell you.
So far you are the only one who has talked anything sensible on this thread, respect your way.
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