ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-29-2013, 02:33 AM   #31
Kt-88
I like everything.
 
Kt-88's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: SLC area, Utah
Oddometer: 543
Don't do what I did and be cheap on the wrist pin retainers. Listen to Plaka. Cost me something like 500$ to do it wrong.
Kt-88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 09:13 AM   #32
cameron110 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
cameron110's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: C-ville, VA
Oddometer: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
Wrist pin retainers are never re-used. Toss the old ones now to avoid mix up.

The size of the spigots in the block limit what you can do in larger jugs. I have run 900 jugs in a 75/5 block. Some say it's a no-no . The block was bored larger in anticipation of the larger displacement the following model year (the /6) but the crank is not as stiff. I had no problems, including running it pretty hard.

Looks like very little corrosion on the exterior aluminum. This is good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kt-88 View Post
Don't do what I did and be cheap on the wrist pin retainers. Listen to Plaka. Cost me something like 500$ to do it wrong.
Thanks for the heads up on the wrist pin retainers. I'll pitch them before the parts go on the shelf. Little nuggets like that are exactly why I like doing these project threads.

Plaka, glad to hear you had good luck upping the displacement with the 75/5 block. I think I'll be using some 800cc nikasil jugs so it should work for me too.
__________________
Resurrection of a: Mongrel /5
Ride Report: West Africa How to: DRZ400e tail bag using Wolfman Lg Expd Tank Bag
Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity.
cameron110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 01:04 PM   #33
cameron110 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
cameron110's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: C-ville, VA
Oddometer: 468
Randy at our machine shop here in town doesn't have a mill large enough to open up the portals on the block or trim down the spigots on the cylinders. But was able to tell me where to go and it's not too far out, hopefully they can get it turned around reasonably quickly.
__________________
Resurrection of a: Mongrel /5
Ride Report: West Africa How to: DRZ400e tail bag using Wolfman Lg Expd Tank Bag
Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity.
cameron110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 06:17 PM   #34
cameron110 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
cameron110's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: C-ville, VA
Oddometer: 468
This project got shoved to the back burner to make room for lots of spring tune ups in the shop and because I was having a bit of trouble finding a machine shop who could do what I wanted.

The good news is after a very pleasant ride out into the country in the little red car I dropped the block and cylinders off at what turned out to be a very comprehensive and incredibly tidy machine shop in some guys back yard shed. Best of all when I pulled up his 60 something year old wife was out in front of the "shop" in a kitchen apron cleaning gaskets off of heads with an air sander. Inside were some very cool race engines and photos from decades of supporting local grassroots racing.

Back at the shop for the afternoon I was able to get some bench time in on the Mogrel and do some parts "shopping" up in the stacks of old crap. I stripped the harness out





and then mocked up some ideas to keep me motivated to get this thing back on the road. At the moment I'm thinking desert sled style.




Now we're talking







I like the bars I found and the PIAA amuses me. I think I want some trials or flattracker style rubber maybe some sr241's or some MT43's The slimmer profile of that denfield seat looks better than the taller /5 unit but I think I want it about 30% shorter in length and with no kick up at the back end, not sure if I'll cut up an existing pan or just build a seat from scratch

sorry for the crappy photo quality I forgot the camera this morning so had to make do with the phone.

So the good news is that the ball is rolling again, the bad news is that I am leaving town for a couple weeks in a few days but I will be able to start some engine building when I get back
__________________
Resurrection of a: Mongrel /5
Ride Report: West Africa How to: DRZ400e tail bag using Wolfman Lg Expd Tank Bag
Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity.

cameron110 screwed with this post 07-29-2013 at 05:30 PM
cameron110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 05:04 PM   #35
cameron110 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
cameron110's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: C-ville, VA
Oddometer: 468
So progress hasn't entirely halted but I did head up to New England for a bit to eat some Lobster and do some sailing with the grandparents and my brothers who I don't get to see too often



so things did get paused a bit, I picked up the block at the machinist on the way back into town and here is where I stand at the moment.



waiting on a couple parts that we didn't have in stock to come in this week so I can get the engine built up.

I have been mulling over gauge/instrument ideas and had a hell of a hair brained one the other night over a couple beers. (more on that later) What I want is a single round gauge and while there are some very cool digital options out there, Acewell and MotoGadget for example, this bike isn't about doing what makes sense.

Yes I could buy an OEM harness off the shelf for not much money, but I want to build my own.

It would be way easier to just build up the 800cc nikasil jugs to one of the later blocks we have kicking around than to get the /5 block portals enlarged to 99mm.

and I could buy a tidy new gauge to put everything I want in one place.

nah, If I want tidy I'll go buy an F800 or something, I want to fuck about and see what I can make work. So lets see what I can come up with starting with this.

__________________
Resurrection of a: Mongrel /5
Ride Report: West Africa How to: DRZ400e tail bag using Wolfman Lg Expd Tank Bag
Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity.

cameron110 screwed with this post 07-30-2013 at 08:40 AM
cameron110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 03:35 PM   #36
cameron110 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
cameron110's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: C-ville, VA
Oddometer: 468
Work has stalled again, I lost the 2.5mm woodruff key for the oil pump/camshaft

I was making good headway on the short block assembly this morning after getting back from a week on the road on the PD but after and hour and a half of hunting both in my parts boxes and all through the shop supplies luck was not on my side. I found two 3mm keys but it looks like I'll have to get a 2.5mm on tomorrows parts order.


here is a closer shot of the work that was done on the block



and the shop where Mr Collier plies his trade



and here are some photos of the progress I made on the short block assembly before coming to a grinding halt







Crank end play worked out pretty nicely

__________________
Resurrection of a: Mongrel /5
Ride Report: West Africa How to: DRZ400e tail bag using Wolfman Lg Expd Tank Bag
Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity.
cameron110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 11:32 AM   #37
cameron110 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
cameron110's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: C-ville, VA
Oddometer: 468
with the fresh eyes of a new day I found the missing woodruff key sitting right on the bench

a little hiccup with the updated cam carrier bolts contacting the timing chain sprocket aside things are going together smoothly
__________________
Resurrection of a: Mongrel /5
Ride Report: West Africa How to: DRZ400e tail bag using Wolfman Lg Expd Tank Bag
Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity.
cameron110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 11:44 AM   #38
Pokie
Just plain Pokie.
 
Pokie's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Oddometer: 864
Yup, after a good nights sleep, troubles are always easier to deal with.
Pokie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 04:15 PM   #39
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 8,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameron110 View Post
with the fresh eyes of a new day I found the missing woodruff key sitting right on the bench
Priceless. Has happened more than once to every one of us. Enjoying your build.

I suppose you offered to do the machining either way so Mr Collier made the decision to enlarge the ports in the block instead of turning down the spigots of the R80 cylinders? Did he elaborate on his reasons for this choice? I have always thought the other option would be easier but I'm not any kind of a machiniest so any light you can shine on this would be appreciated.

This is a modification that is considered by many riders but rarely completed by any. I don't think the only reason is expense but it may be?
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 05:45 AM   #40
cameron110 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
cameron110's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: C-ville, VA
Oddometer: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
I suppose you offered to do the machining either way so Mr Collier made the decision to enlarge the ports in the block instead of turning down the spigots of the R80 cylinders? Did he elaborate on his reasons for this choice?

I don't think the only reason is expense but it may be?
This is as good a time as any for some more on my new favorite machine shop. I already mentioned his wife helping him which has seemed to be the norm after a few trips, she is usually dressed like grandma in the kitchen except of course that she is working on engine parts. While standing there chatting on one of my visits something caught my eye around the corner of the shop behind a derelict riding mower so I asked what it was: "oh that, that's a '68 e type. It's been next years project for the last 20 years" turned out my eye for the rear quarter panel was about right, very cool.

Now why you might ask have I gone a few times? Well, I had to go back for a bit more work but that was my fault not his. More on that shortly but in direct answer to your first question; I did offer that either the spigots or portals could be machined and asked which would be easier. While looking at both he said he could do either about as easily on his mill so I elected to have the block done which will allow me a bit more flexibility to swap out for other nikasil jugs in the future.

He asked if I needed the step for the O-ring milled into the block (this is where it's my fault). I said no as long as they are a close fit I can run without o-rings, thinking that with the later, more precisely manufactured blocks and jugs you can be run without o-rings. What I didn't notice until I got back home with the block and jugs after the first work he did was that there is a tiny corner at the base of cylinder behind the o-ring groove. That tiny shoulder prevented the jug from sitting fully flat on the block. The gap was thinner than a typical gasket but was there none the less. He had assumed there would be a base gasket which would take care of it.

So back I went (the trip where I noticed the Jag) and he was happy to add in the milled shoulder for the o-ring which can be seen in the photo above.

I would think that there are two barriers to getting this done. I went through three other machine shops who either didn't have a good enough mill or were unwilling to take it on thinking that it would be so much time that there is no way they could make money at it. So one problem is finding a shop willing to do the work.
When I went to pick the block up the first time Ted said it took him 4 or 5 hours to get the block jigged up in the mill to do the work since the machined face that the base of the jug sits on is the only square flat surface. He then said "How's Ninety dollars sound". I said that sounds more than fair and gladly paid him. When I went back to get the o-ring shoulder added he charged me $20 a side, I assume it was so much less since he had already figured out how to construct the jig to mount the block in his mill. All that is to say that I agree that if you can find a machine shop willing to do the work and if it takes 4 or 5 hours it is typically a prohibitively expensive modification.
__________________
Resurrection of a: Mongrel /5
Ride Report: West Africa How to: DRZ400e tail bag using Wolfman Lg Expd Tank Bag
Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity.
cameron110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 09:37 AM   #41
bpeckm
Grin!
 
bpeckm's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Road Island
Oddometer: 5,754
I say "Aha!" to your comment that, in spite of it being more difficult to begin with, having the BLOCK milled will give you further options down the road....

I like your attitude... how far can I bend this before it.....(fill in the blank)....

__________________
XS650 becomes a VT BackRoadRunner
Loving the 80ST
I love projects that take twice as much effort as should be needed. Should be an Airhead motto. (disston)
__________________
bpeckm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 10:37 AM   #42
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 8,987
That is a great story Cameron. I think that Mr Collier is about to get much more of this Airhead work. Do you fell it appropriate to share contact info?

I also agree with the block modification being preferable when there is a choice.
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 03:32 PM   #43
cameron110 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
cameron110's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: C-ville, VA
Oddometer: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
That is a great story Cameron. I think that Mr Collier is about to get much more of this Airhead work. Do you fell it appropriate to share contact info?

I also agree with the block modification being preferable when there is a choice.
I don' have a good read on how he would feel about doing mail order work so next week I'll call and ask him about it (I'm back at work tomorrow and through the weekend so It will have to wait for Monday.

If I don't post an update one way or the other by the middle of the week I've forgotten and reminders would be welcome.
__________________
Resurrection of a: Mongrel /5
Ride Report: West Africa How to: DRZ400e tail bag using Wolfman Lg Expd Tank Bag
Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity.
cameron110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 04:08 PM   #44
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 8,987
I would understand somebody trying to be "retired" may not want to do mail order. He could also just allow people to do what you have done and bring stuff in. Maybe the Airhead business won't be over whelming but the boring the block out to 99mm should have some interest in these pages and many others.

It would be much easier if he only accepted stripped blocks for boring. That could easily be a stipulation.

Feel him out on it for sure. Maybe get him to agree to doing just a few more? To see what the demand would be.

Here's what has been happening of late. The idea of fitting later cylinders, 99mm, to an early bike comes up all the time. Several people have investigated it but you are the first to finish the machining part of the conversion in years. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think there is anybody else that is readily available for this work.

I'm not in the market myself so I will probably drop out of this completely. I just know there are going to be a couple right away at least.

As another point I think his price may be too cheap. Others that have experience in doing this stuff will know but the price you got I kinda think is a special deal because he wanted to not over charge. I'm not sure what the price should be but think he should get a fair price.

Maybe you could wait on approaching him till another rider speaks up and thinks he could follow in your foot steps?
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 10:06 PM   #45
Plaka
Brevis illi vita est
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Oddometer: 4,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
I would understand somebody trying to be "retired" may not want to do mail order. He could also just allow people to do what you have done and bring stuff in. Maybe the Airhead business won't be over whelming but the boring the block out to 99mm should have some interest in these pages and many others.

It would be much easier if he only accepted stripped blocks for boring. That could easily be a stipulation.



Feel him out on it for sure. Maybe get him to agree to doing just a few more? To see what the demand would be.

Here's what has been happening of late. The idea of fitting later cylinders, 99mm, to an early bike comes up all the time. Several people have investigated it but you are the first to finish the machining part of the conversion in years. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think there is anybody else that is readily available for this work.

I'm not in the market myself so I will probably drop out of this completely. I just know there are going to be a couple right away at least.

As another point I think his price may be too cheap. Others that have experience in doing this stuff will know but the price you got I kinda think is a special deal because he wanted to not over charge. I'm not sure what the price should be but think he should get a fair price.

Maybe you could wait on approaching him till another rider speaks up and thinks he could follow in your foot steps?

it is not a difficult operation. You can do it on a vertical Knee mill with a big angle plate, or on a horizontal mill with a boring attachment. You do want a stripped block. Chips. Unless you have made up a dedicated fixture, the setup for the cut is slow. You have to square the block to the axis of the cutter and then center the cutting head. The cut itself is quick. might consult Randy Long.

Mail order works if' you're set up with shipping containers. I have seen plans for plywood plates used for packaging blocks. Shipping adds quite a bit to the cost.

if anyone wants to play I have a 75/5 short block I'm looking to sell...
Plaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014