ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > Equipment
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-29-2013, 01:13 PM   #16
Corona OP
Dreaming of Dreaming
 
Corona's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingby View Post
Is there any way this could slide up? Looks like it could come up to the armpits and neck in a get off. Not the areas you want sharp edges coming at you. I would trim it down significantly (away from the vulnerable areas) and try to soften the edges. They look sharp.

Most of the commercial stuff I have seen has more flexible plastic hard parts, sewn soft armour around the edges and a smaller "footprint" away from these areas for a reason.
I did think it over lapped the edges of the Forcefield by a little too much. I will think about how to make a smaller one.

To put my mind (and some of the forum members minds) at rest I have just built a material sample with the same layup and construction techniques as the breast plate. I will test it to destruction once it has cured.
__________________
2010 BMW F800 GS
Farkles: Adv Spec Crash Bars, Adv Spec Bash Plate, Bark Busters w/ Storm Guards, CalSci Touring screen, Remus Ti exhuast
Current Tyre: Conti TK80

2005 CBR600F4i
Farkles: Hell braided brake lines
Current Tyre: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 02:05 PM   #17
kingby
Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: The Rock
Oddometer: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corona View Post
I did think it over lapped the edges of the Forcefield by a little too much. I will think about how to make a smaller one.

To put my mind (and some of the forum members minds) at rest I have just built a material sample with the same layup and construction techniques as the breast plate. I will test it to destruction once it has cured.
If you could make the breast plate at about 75 or 80% of the size of the forcefield with the same shape, that would give you a nice soft perimeter around the plate with the hard protection at the centre where you need it.

Also a better bond between the Forcefield and the breast plate would ensure any movement would be as a system and there would be a soft edge impacting first.
kingby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 03:41 PM   #18
L.B.S.
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Oddometer: 1,261
I would definitely make it a little bit smaller, and for sure put some moulding around the edges.

Like visors on hockey helmets, they can protect superbly from direct impact, but they can also cut the sh*t out of you from sliding down or flexing and then hitting soft parts. That is what I would be afraid of more than splinters in a really big impact, is the thing getting pushed sideways/up/down and having the edge do a nasty slice 'n dice.

If I was bothering to do this (great idea and awesome job, by the way!) for sure Kevlar would be used, or at least a kevlar/carbon mix twill.

L.B.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 04:24 PM   #19
Iron Rey
Oh shit, not him!
 
Iron Rey's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Crappleton, WI
Oddometer: 816
FWIW, Carbon fibre is good for a lot of things...But not everything
__________________
2014 K1600GT Sport
2012 S1000rr
2010 GSA
1981 CB900C
I'm not a glass half empty or full guy, I am just happy to have the damn glass!
Iron Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2013, 03:24 PM   #20
seniorasi
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Edge of the light
Oddometer: 816
Is there an impact test your future????
seniorasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2013, 04:07 PM   #21
Corona OP
Dreaming of Dreaming
 
Corona's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by seniorasi View Post
Is there an impact test your future????
I will impact test a material sample, hopefully tomorrow. I will post pics/vids once completed.
__________________
2010 BMW F800 GS
Farkles: Adv Spec Crash Bars, Adv Spec Bash Plate, Bark Busters w/ Storm Guards, CalSci Touring screen, Remus Ti exhuast
Current Tyre: Conti TK80

2005 CBR600F4i
Farkles: Hell braided brake lines
Current Tyre: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 12:14 PM   #22
Corona OP
Dreaming of Dreaming
 
Corona's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 100
I created a test panel using the same layup and got to testing.



I tried recording the impact using a GoPro at 240 FPS but it wasn't as useful as I thought. The sample was placed on similar impact foam as used in the chest protector. The impact was created using the corner edge of a Facom engineering hammer.

No way of calibrating the impact force but I hit it as hard as I reasonably could while having enough control to not smash the GoPro up.



Front side.



Rear side.


Splinters in foam.



I also tested other samples including e-glass, CF/kevlar and a thick CF layup. I have decided to try the following as the next sample:

Plain weave 200 gsm CF
175 gsm plain weave Kevlar
-45/+45 bi-axial 270 gsm CF
175 gsm plain weave Kevlar
-45/+45 bi-axial 270 gsm CF
175 gsm plain weave Kevlar
Plain weave 200 gsm CF

I have allot of carbon hanging around but little Kevlar thus the high number of carbon layers. I will get testing and report back.
__________________
2010 BMW F800 GS
Farkles: Adv Spec Crash Bars, Adv Spec Bash Plate, Bark Busters w/ Storm Guards, CalSci Touring screen, Remus Ti exhuast
Current Tyre: Conti TK80

2005 CBR600F4i
Farkles: Hell braided brake lines
Current Tyre: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:04 PM   #23
KungPaoDog
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Colorado
Oddometer: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corona View Post
I created a test panel using the same layup and got to testing.



I tried recording the impact using a GoPro at 240 FPS but it wasn't as useful as I thought. The sample was placed on similar impact foam as used in the chest protector. The impact was created using the corner edge of a Facom engineering hammer.

No way of calibrating the impact force but I hit it as hard as I reasonably could while having enough control to not smash the GoPro up.



Front side.



Rear side.


Splinters in foam.



I also tested other samples including e-glass, CF/kevlar and a thick CF layup. I have decided to try the following as the next sample:

Plain weave 200 gsm CF
175 gsm plain weave Kevlar
-45/+45 bi-axial 270 gsm CF
175 gsm plain weave Kevlar
-45/+45 bi-axial 270 gsm CF
175 gsm plain weave Kevlar
Plain weave 200 gsm CF

I have allot of carbon hanging around but little Kevlar thus the high number of carbon layers. I will get testing and report back.
I applaud your attempts at building something new, by yourself.

Your testing rig is all but useless unless you are measuring force applied and comparing it to some WAG of real world impact, perhaps a 180 lb rider falling from 4 feet.

Carbon fiber is far too brittle and is not the right material for the majority of the lay-up, you should look into much more flexible materials such as Kevlar.

Carbon fiber is very cool, but is a very poor material for some applications.

Keep it up, I like what you are doing.
__________________
2010 Honda NT700V-Red
KungPaoDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:41 PM   #24
Corona OP
Dreaming of Dreaming
 
Corona's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by KungPaoDog View Post
I applaud your attempts at building something new, by yourself.

Your testing rig is all but useless unless you are measuring force applied and comparing it to some WAG of real world impact, perhaps a 180 lb rider falling from 4 feet.

Carbon fiber is far too brittle and is not the right material for the majority of the lay-up, you should look into much more flexible materials such as Kevlar.

Carbon fiber is very cool, but is a very poor material for some applications.

Keep it up, I like what you are doing.
I was planning to set-up a more scientific testing rig using a long pipe and a cylindrical weight of known mass being dropped down it onto a metal rod with known area surface area in contact with the test piece.

I then thought better of it. Once I get something passing my hammer test I will then test it properly

I have maybe 50+ sq meters of various carbon fabrics but just 1/2 a sqm of plain weave Kevlar. I should probably go shopping.
__________________
2010 BMW F800 GS
Farkles: Adv Spec Crash Bars, Adv Spec Bash Plate, Bark Busters w/ Storm Guards, CalSci Touring screen, Remus Ti exhuast
Current Tyre: Conti TK80

2005 CBR600F4i
Farkles: Hell braided brake lines
Current Tyre: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 03:15 PM   #25
Corona OP
Dreaming of Dreaming
 
Corona's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 100
So I tested the new layup ...



Impact of a hammer blow with roughly similar force to the previous piece.



Only just penetrated.

When the hammer fully penetrated the sample it went through the foam to the floor. To prevent hammer damage I doubled up the foam so I could try hitting it harder. This was also a slightly more representative test of the energy absorption capabilities of the chest protector it would be mounted on.



These blows were as hard as I could possibly beat the sample while using the hammer. My arm was not feeling 100% afterwards so I must have been doing it right



Well the hammer got through. I have decided to replace one of the bi-axial carbon layers with a doubling up of all of the kevlar layers. I will give this a test and if still no dice I will put in an order for some heavier weight kevlar fabric.
__________________
2010 BMW F800 GS
Farkles: Adv Spec Crash Bars, Adv Spec Bash Plate, Bark Busters w/ Storm Guards, CalSci Touring screen, Remus Ti exhuast
Current Tyre: Conti TK80

2005 CBR600F4i
Farkles: Hell braided brake lines
Current Tyre: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:22 PM   #26
KungPaoDog
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Colorado
Oddometer: 416
Cool stuff. I'm glad you didn't take my input as to be discouraging. Psst... you know that about half of your composite properties come from the resin, right?
__________________
2010 Honda NT700V-Red
KungPaoDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 05:05 PM   #27
Corona OP
Dreaming of Dreaming
 
Corona's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 100
Yeah. I am currently bidding on an old oven on eBay so I can post cure properly. I am using a relatively generic Epoxy at the moment designed for marine use but it is nearly finished so I will upgrade it soon.
__________________
2010 BMW F800 GS
Farkles: Adv Spec Crash Bars, Adv Spec Bash Plate, Bark Busters w/ Storm Guards, CalSci Touring screen, Remus Ti exhuast
Current Tyre: Conti TK80

2005 CBR600F4i
Farkles: Hell braided brake lines
Current Tyre: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 10:45 AM   #28
L.B.S.
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Oddometer: 1,261
Looking on with great interest
L.B.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 06:34 AM   #29
Corona OP
Dreaming of Dreaming
 
Corona's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 100
Having done a bit of research it seems my carbon/kevlar alternating layers is probably reducing the effectiveness of the kevlar. I have just laid up:

1 x Plain weave 200 gsm CF
1 x -45/+45 bi-axial 270 gsm CF
6 x 175 gsm plain weave Kevlar
1 x Plain weave 200 gsm CF

Will give it a test once it has cured.

I also tried bonding a low temp thermo plastic to the exterior of a cured part and also to dry carbon using small granules and a heat gun. It is showing mixed results as it is tricky to get it to bond. However it is showing great impact results so it is worth further work.
__________________
2010 BMW F800 GS
Farkles: Adv Spec Crash Bars, Adv Spec Bash Plate, Bark Busters w/ Storm Guards, CalSci Touring screen, Remus Ti exhuast
Current Tyre: Conti TK80

2005 CBR600F4i
Farkles: Hell braided brake lines
Current Tyre: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 04:29 PM   #30
Corona OP
Dreaming of Dreaming
 
Corona's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Oddometer: 100
It is made!

Oh how I hate Kevlar. It is a bitch to cut, file and sand. New armour is rock solid though, pics and tests to follow.
__________________
2010 BMW F800 GS
Farkles: Adv Spec Crash Bars, Adv Spec Bash Plate, Bark Busters w/ Storm Guards, CalSci Touring screen, Remus Ti exhuast
Current Tyre: Conti TK80

2005 CBR600F4i
Farkles: Hell braided brake lines
Current Tyre: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014