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Old 05-07-2013, 07:34 PM   #16
atg OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madefrtv View Post
my horn switch failed for good this time. Sweet dealer has a replacement on the way. South Sound BMW has always been good to me.
In answer to 2 posts:

Apparently the switches are waterproof, at least in theory... What seem s to be the problem with water in them is, appparently, result of washing with high pressure. Rain, no matter how hard it rains, should have no effect.

Did your horn button got stuck in the on position ? Sort of like the button feels spring less and not returning to its natural (out) position ?

Andre
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:00 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by atg View Post
Did you notice if it may be water related ? Have you washed your bike just prior to this occurring ?

Andre
No water, I was driving in France on a nice day. On the way there everything worked fine. On the way back (after doing about 20 miles returning) I wanted to put is on soft for the main roads and it didn't respond. The next day everything was fine again, haven't had that problem anymore (but now the novelty wore of I play less with the suspension, I use the modes more now).
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:29 AM   #18
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IIRC, the mode options (e.g., dynamic, road, rain) only change when you're stopped and in neutral.

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Had a luxury problem shortly. The ESA button didn't respond during a drive, but the modes worked. It happened during a ride and the next day everything was fine again. It could have been me doing something wrong, but not quite sure.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:21 PM   #19
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IIRC, the mode options (e.g., dynamic, road, rain) only change when you're stopped and in neutral.
Just complementing kindofblue's answer:

You may also chanhe the modes while riding if, after choosing the desired mode, you don't use the brakes and accelerator while pressing and then releasing the clutch. It actually only takes a half pull on the clutch to have the mode changed.

Regarding the ESA the damping (soft, normal or hard ) may be changed on the fly. Compression, however, (1 person, 2 or luggage ) may only be changed while stopped.

Also keep in mind that the first time the ESA button is pressed it only recalls the setting; you have to press it again to change it.

Andre
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:32 PM   #20
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After 19 replies to this post the only complaints of defects on the GSW so far have been about the switches.

It makes me very happy that our new bikes are showing, at least so far, so few problems !

Certainly this is a small problem and covered under warranty. I do not know if BMW has made any changes to these switches but if not I am sure they will although it may take them a while.

Considering that this is a brand new bike and as far as I can tell the only parts brought from the older model are the turn signal lights ( if you have these in LED ) this is a great success !

Congrats BMW team !

Andre
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atg View Post
After 19 replies to this post the only complaints of defects on the GSW so far have been about the switches.

It makes me very happy that our new bikes are showing, at least so far, so few problems !

Certainly this is a small problem and covered under warranty. I do not know if BMW has made any changes to these switches but if not I am sure they will although it may take them a while.

Considering that this is a brand new bike and as far as I can tell the only parts brought from the older model are the turn signal lights ( if you have these in LED ) this is a great success !

Congrats BMW team !

Andre
One person had a broken startergear or something. I didn't follow up on his problem.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:34 PM   #22
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One person had a broken startergear or something. I didn't follow up on his problem.
It was the chutch inside the starter gear inside the motor. BMW replaced the entire motor so they could tear it apart themselves to try to sort it out. The dealer did mention the rep said it happened to one other bike in the press fleet but there was a very early running change to the part so it shouldnt pop up again. Clearly it was a manufacturing defect and shouldnt be considered a problem of the GSW.

It was my bike and it was handled very well by both my dealer, BMW of Southeast Michigan, and BMW Motorad.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:48 PM   #23
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It was the chutch inside the starter gear inside the motor. BMW replaced the entire motor so they could tear it apart themselves to try to sort it out. The dealer did mention the rep said it happened to one other bike in the press fleet but there was a very early running change to the part so it shouldnt pop up again. Clearly it was a manufacturing defect and shouldnt be considered a problem of the GSW.

It was my bike and it was handled very well by both my dealer, BMW of Southeast Michigan, and BMW Motorad.
I am aware that in Brazil there were also 2 bikes with this problem and both had the full engine exchanged.

We certainly can say that BMW's posture is serious which certainly adds to the pleasure of owning it !

Andre
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atg View Post
In answer to 2 posts:

Apparently the switches are waterproof, at least in theory... What seem s to be the problem with water in them is, appparently, result of washing with high pressure. Rain, no matter how hard it rains, should have no effect.

Did your horn button got stuck in the on position ? Sort of like the button feels spring less and not returning to its natural (out) position ?

Andre
stuck on!. it felt like the button wasn't actuating anything while the horn was blaring.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:00 PM   #25
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Years ago (circa 1959) I bot a wrecked R50 which I repaired and rode for several years and many miles. That little R50 sat outdoors in rain, snow and sun for 2 years while I was in the US Navy. I oiled the switches with 3 in 1 (WD40 had not yet been invented). I would come home for a few days, kick it a couple of times to start it and everything worked...lights, battery, brake lights...everything. It never failed to start after a 3-4 strokes of the lever.

Those were BMWs...these new ones? I'm not so sure.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:14 PM   #26
atg OP
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stuck on!. it felt like the button wasn't actuating anything while the horn was blaring.
Madefrtv;

Eventhough I feel you should complain at your dealer and request that they exchange the complete left side switch setup, it is possible that your dealer may not have them in stock and even BMW in your country may be out of them as well. That's what happened in Brazil. My dealership agreed to exchange both left and right complete switch assemblies under warranty, however as they are not in stock at BMW Brazil they will have to be imported and the whole process wil take about a month. Eventhough they will be air shipped from Germany, the brazilian import process is quite bureaucratic.

My problem was with the high beam switch and after the dealer's warranty department authorized the exchange, upon my insistence, one of their mechanics and myself took apart the left side assembly to check if lubricating the switch wouldn't make it workable again.

It is not very ease to take it apart. Besides 2 torx #8 screws visible from underneath there is a plastic piece with 2 tabs that have to be pressed on 2 points and removed before the switch assemblyit will comes off. These plastic tabs are quite easy to break so if you decide to take it apart be very careful as not to break them.

Once you've opened the assembly you will notice that what we come to think as switches are nothing more than levers that when pushed in actuate the real, inside switches. These have a cilindrical shape and are rubber covered to make them waterproof. In fact, these rubber coverings switches are very similar, albeit in a somewhat smaller size, to the old, also inside built, switches of the oilhead and hexhead GS's.

If you play around with this inside switch, most likely it will return to its original (out) position; however if you press it in again it will, sooner or later get stuck in, again.

What I did on my unit was to carefully lift up the rubber protection (which works and looks like a micro black condom), and spray some silicon oil inside its internal workings. After that, it started to work perfectly, perhaps even better than new !

My feeling is that this switch is made with to much precision, very German like, and any movement to them that is not precisely aligned makes them stuck. If they were made with more play built in the problem most likely would never occur. Also, if upon assembly at the factory they were lubricated with some kind of waterproof grease the problem would not exist.

I am not positive, however, that the solution I have implemented will be trouble free throughout the time. On one hand I think that as they get used more and more they will tend to abrade any rough edges they may have and they should work more freely and ever more smoothly; on the other hand,personally, I am not very worried abou their longevity as they will be exchanged under warranty in a month or so.

I am sorry if my explanation is too long and perhaps too detailed but as I don't know if warranty repair will be awarded in your case at least you will have one possible solution to this problem.

Best of luck to you,

Andre
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:47 PM   #27
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Years ago (circa 1959) I bot a wrecked R50 which I repaired and rode for several years and many miles. That little R50 sat outdoors in rain, snow and sun for 2 years while I was in the US Navy. I oiled the switches with 3 in 1 (WD40 had not yet been invented). I would come home for a few days, kick it a couple of times to start it and everything worked...lights, battery, brake lights...everything. It never failed to start after a 3-4 strokes of the lever.

Those were BMWs...these new ones? I'm not so sure.
Def;

Very interesting post ! It got me thinking on your comments...

My feeling is that throughout time most, if not all products become more sofisticated and certainly very more complex.

The new GS, at least in the premium package, has on the left side switch assembly ( one of the subjects of this topic and it seems to me as good an example as any ) 11 internal switches. These are:

1 for the high beam
1 for the hazard flash lights
1 for auto light switch
1 for the trip
1 for the info
1 for the ASC/ABS
1 for the ESA
3 for the direction blinkers
1 for the horn

I do not know how many switches your older model had, but I am certain that nealy as many. Obviouslly, the present system is quite more complex and certainly space is at premium; everything has to be made quite smaller and, therefore, it must be quite harder to built.

This analogy probably can be used on the new bike as a whole: lots of electronic equipment to control the enormous processing power today's bike need. I believe, that present models are quite more complex as they offer a phletora of new resources available to its owner.

Certainly, one can reason and ask if all this is really necessary. My personnal belief is that today's models are much faster while at the same time much safer and pleasurable to ride than the older models did ; nostalgia not considered.

I remember ( I am 59 years old) my first car: it was VW Betlle with a 4 cylinder boxer and a single carburetor. Adjusting it was accomplished with a screwdriver and "good ears". Nothing more was needed than set of filler gauges and, perhaps, a strobe light to set its timing. At the time I could certainly carry most maintenance and repairs myself. Nowadays, the only participation I may have reparing my bike is ridding it to the shop where the very first thing the the technician ( they don't like to be called mechanics any more...) will do is to connect it to a computer that itself is connected through the internet to another computer located in Munich headquarters.

The computer in Munich will then tell the "technician", step by step, what the problem is and how to repair it down to which screw turn first !

The fact is that in my opinion today's bikes offer much more than they did in the past. Furthermore, I believe they are quite more reliable as well. Personally I have ridden over 150.000 Km ( about 91.000 miles ) on 3 GS's and, so far only once I was left at the side of the road with a broken bike.

The present GS is an incredible development over the previous model which I think was already a fantastic bike. It is a completely brand new model that, as far as I can tell, the only part carried over from the previous model are the blinker direction and that if one already had the LED kind.

As a manufacturer of other products, non motorcycle related, I can simpathize with what an enourmous undertake is to build a new and such a complex product as the new GS is. The amount of problems that have so far surfaced is, again in my opinion, ridiccously small and of little, if any, significance. I am certain as well, that BMW will continue to stand behind its products as it always has throughout the years.

Is it more complex than teh older models ? Certainly it is.

Is it more likely to have problems ? Perhaps, as it is a considerably more complex and sofisticated product.

Does it offer considerably more to its customer than the older models did ? No doubt about it.

Would I prefer to own an older model over the present one ? I guess that after reading this post there is not even a need to ask.


My very best regards to you and enjoy the future which suddenly became the present !


Andre

atg screwed with this post 05-08-2013 at 08:58 PM
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:55 PM   #28
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problems

Wait 2-3 years and all the bugs will be gone. There will also be new improvements along the way. I am fine with keeping my '12 GSA for a few years and then stepping to the new model. Look at the improvements that were made to gsa in 2010, I look for that to happen again.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:16 AM   #29
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Those were BMWs...these new ones? I'm not so sure.
Those BMWs used magnetos... no electrics needed to run the bike unless you like your lights to work at idle speeds. The battery is 6V and the generator (generator, not alternator) puts out a whopping 60 watts. Your headlamp uses up 35 of them. Nothing left over for things like heated grips, heated gear, or extra lights.

No external oil filter. Oil changes every 1,200 miles (2000 km). Every so often you get to pull the entire engine apart to clean the oil slingers or worry about destroying you crank. New spark plugs every 7,200 miles. Magneto coils are known to fail. Condensors fail. On some the heads start to deform over time due to bad metallurgy.

Yep, those were BMWs.

They're fun bikes---I own the one pictured in my avatar---but in terms of reliability the new bikes are at least eleventy-seven times better.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:20 AM   #30
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Wait 2-3 years and all the bugs will be gone.
Dreamer... they'll be replaced by new bugs. Example from the hexhead world: the dreaded EWS antenna failure didn't start until about '07. The antennas '05 and '06 bikes were fine.

Things will change. Some changes will be improvements. Other changes will be cost reductions once they learn where a cheaper part can be used.
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