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Old 05-09-2014, 01:55 PM   #1
jecklc80 OP
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Oil level rising

I have a 2005 950 adv. About 2 months ago I added flex jets and oil drain hose and did an oil change. Oil looked normal filter looked normal. My oil level was almost to the top of the full mark on the dipstick. Checked yesterday and it was well over the full line. Also I filled the gas tank and got it too full, it leaked out when it heated up while I was at work. Any chance that fuel could have found its way into the oil res? Or would you guess it is the water pump? Only 4000 miles total but it's still 9 years old. Im going to take an oil sample tomorrow but was curious if anyone ever had fuel in the oil. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Old 05-09-2014, 02:00 PM   #2
Black Hills
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did you check it at the same temp both times? my 990 was a PIA for oil level, it would change quite a bit depending on temp and how long since you shut it off.
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Old 05-09-2014, 02:13 PM   #3
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Yep the oil level alters big depending on temp. If not temp related most likely it would be water pump not fuel. The only way to get fuel int the oil would be to flood the cylinders but if the bike cranks over that's not it. Check the oil filter for waves. You can do this without dumping the oil if you lay the bike over.
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Old 05-09-2014, 04:09 PM   #4
jecklc80 OP
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The first time after oil change I started it and idled until 4 bars at about 60 degrees. This past time I had been riding in the city in 85 degree heat. So it could be temp related. Which way is better to check? Let idle until 4 bars or check after a ride?

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Old 05-09-2014, 04:33 PM   #5
buzybraza
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Consistency

You have to be consistent with your oil readings.
In my opinion always check oil 2 to 5 min AFTER a ride.
Checking oil level with a "cold" engine is a no IMO.
Too soon after you switched it off and you could have foam / air bubbles in oil, that's why I say 2 to 5 min.
These bikes are notorious for "large variations" in oil readings. You can't check oil when "cold" and then check again after use and say the oil level has changed. If you are consistent, your readings should be consistent. If you are consistent and the oil level is rising, then you have some other problem...

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Old 05-09-2014, 04:44 PM   #6
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when is the last time you cleaned your oil tank suction screen (#18)?
It's a good idea to change the grommet (#19)while in there.


sometimes also that suction side hose(#13) can leak at the upper fitting into the tank and pull in air . It wont leak much just look drizzly. when suction side is weak, pressure/fill side can exceed the suction sides ability to keep up
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by brents347 View Post
Yep the oil level alters big depending on temp. If not temp related most likely it would be water pump not fuel. The only way to get fuel int the oil would be to flood the cylinders but if the bike cranks over that's not it. Check the oil filter for waves. You can do this without dumping the oil if you lay the bike over.
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The first time after oil change I started it and idled until 4 bars at about 60 degrees. This past time I had been riding in the city in 85 degree heat. So it could be temp related. Which way is better to check? Let idle until 4 bars or check after a ride?

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Brent is right. Focus on doing your oil checks the exact same way. Make sure you ride the bike until at full operating temp, and them park it on the center stand. Wait three minutes to let the oil bubbles to settle before checking the oil. Do this every time you check the oil, and you should be good. If the oil level is too high, just suck some out of the tank with whatever works, like a turkey baster or . . . my favorite tool . . . a "flavor injector." {Please don't tell my wife.}
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:50 PM   #8
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Well, the oil looks pretty clean. Definitely doesn't look like there is coolant in it. But it smells like some gas may have found its way in. Is there any way to tell other than just comparing fresh oil to oil from the res? Is it possible, if you have too much fuel in the tanks to keep the floats open in the carbs and let fuel leak into the engine? I have yet to ride it again and check the oil to see if the level truly rose. Just not real keen on running it up if there is fuel watering down the oil.

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Old 05-12-2014, 01:54 PM   #9
Black Hills
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the only way I could get consistent reading was when it was cold. so, I checked it according to the manual after a change to get the right level. then checked it the next morning cold. I noted the cold level and checked it that way from then on. I really prefer a sight glass.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:43 PM   #10
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Well its definitely fuel. Took a sample from the res and smelled it next to a fresh sample and there is definitely gas in it. Looks like I'm going to drain and refill the oil then start fresh with with my checking to make sure it came from when I overfilled it and that it's not an ongoing problem.

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Old 05-13-2014, 02:35 PM   #11
Black Hills
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I would guess a stuck float or bad needle valve. a carb rebuild should fix it?
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Old 05-13-2014, 03:39 PM   #12
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The guys that are advising you to get your oil level checking procedure down, speak the truth. It's highly likely to be the cause of your anguish, so you should get that dialed in before worrying about anything more sinister.

It looks like you haven't owned the bike that long, so maybe you're unaware of how erratic the reading can be.

I've owned my 05.5 since new and it's still a mystery.

Gas in the oil? I would say used oil never smells like new oil.

The tanks are known for pissing out gas if over filled, but the excess gets dumped on the floor via the filler caps, rather than in the motor. Fwiw The 05.5 has a decal on the glove box that even shows how to avoid over filling - not sure if that came on earlier bikes.

As far as coolant in the oil is concerned, although it's a common symptom of water pump seal failure, given the oil level discrepancy you're claiming, you ought to be able to rule that out just by checking the coolant overflow tank level.

Good luck: you're probably worrying about nothing in this case, but rest assured there'll be plenty of real issues to panic over in the not too distant future.

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Old 05-13-2014, 03:56 PM   #13
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The guys that are advising you to get your oil level checking procedure down, speak the truth. It's highly likely to be the cause of your anguish, so you should get that dialed in before worrying about anything more sinister.

It looks like you haven't owned the bike that long, so maybe you're unaware of how erratic the reading can be.

I've owned my 05.5 since new and it's still a mystery.

Gas in the oil? I would say used oil never smells like new oil.

The tanks are known for pissing out gas if over filled, but the excess gets dumped on the floor via the filler caps, rather than in the motor. Fwiw The 05.5 has a decal on the glove box that even shows how to avoid over filling - not sure if that came on earlier bikes.

As far as coolant in the oil is concerned, although it's a common symptom of water pump seal failure, given the oil level discrepancy you're claiming, you ought to be able to rule that out just by checking the coolant overflow tank level.

Good luck: you're probably worrying about nothing in this case, but rest assured there'll be plenty of real issues to panic over in the not too distant future.

Douf
+1. I would say pull the oil filter and see if the pleats are straight. If they are straight, you likely don't have a water pump failure. (I use Scott's Stainless Filters so I don't have to worry about the paper filter getting clogged). The only way you can get a substantial increase in oil volume from water infiltration is through a failed WP seal. If the water level is staying the same and you see no wavy pleats, you don't have a WP problem.

If the bike starts reasonably well, I would say there is a very, very unlikely that the carbs are leaking in any significant way. My front carb leaks down into the cylinder, but my bike is odd. It hates me. I know mine leaks because sometimes on startup the engine liquid locks with gas. I know how to avoid it, so it's no big deal. If you are not hearing the engine liquid lock on you on startup, then you very likely don't have my problem, so stop worrying about it.

Just learn to check the oil the right way. Run the bike until it is normal temp, let it sit on the center stand for three minutes, and then check. Suck out excess with a turkey baster or something. Don't get too excited otherwise. It's a KTM. A bike just like yours won the Dakar Rally. It's fairly bulletproof.
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Old 05-13-2014, 06:54 PM   #14
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So basically you don't think gas could have forced it's way past the carbs and into the engine? I know there's no water pump issue oil is way to clear for that. What does it feel like if it liquid locks? I Don't think this is happening I'm just wondering.

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Old 05-13-2014, 07:49 PM   #15
Douf
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So basically you don't think gas could have forced it's way past the carbs and into the engine? I know there's no water pump issue oil is way to clear for that. What does it feel like if it liquid locks? I Don't think this is happening I'm just wondering.

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I submerged my klr and hydrolocked it. It wouldn't turn over when I - mistakenly in retrospect - tried to get it running. A few months later the con rod snapped and punched a hole through the cases.

However, in the case of the KTM - especially of your vintage - there's a well known history of starter torque limiter nonsense. You'd hear a god-awful noise, literally like a bucket of bolts grinding 'round in the motor (damhik) if the limiter was slipping or if the motor was locked. Since you haven't mentioned this, it seems unlikley that your problems lie in this area.

I know the oil level check sounds unlikely, however fwiw I've got 6 other bikes, all with emminently repeatable oil levels. The 950's all over the place.

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