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Old 05-09-2013, 12:23 PM   #31
Heloflights OP
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...and the winner is....

DT!

Turns out the stab in neutral in one of the garage outlets (original to the house) was loose, outlet was replaced, wires freshly stripped, screwed in and ta da! This was the fourth item on the chain out from the box.


Back in business...

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Old 05-09-2013, 12:56 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by trailNtent View Post
If you have 120 to neutral or ground at the bus bar of the panel and have strange voltages on a few branch circuits, I can almost guaranty you have a neutral loose somewhere. Probably on a multi wire branch circuit. Start at the first device that's not working that's closest to your panel and look for loose neutral connections. Back stabbed receptacles are usually the cause of this.
Wow... good call!
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:21 PM   #33
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I thought the "electrician" said the breaker was bad.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:52 PM   #34
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Bad breaker....

...the power co tech rep suspected a bad breaker based on the symptoms, the electrician suspected a bad neutral since we knew we had not lost a phase....
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:23 AM   #35
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There is a possibility that there is a GFI receptacle in the circuit. They can be configured in such a way that everything downstream of the receptacle is protected by the GFI. This would not normally be done with the interior and exterior devices, but I have seen some goofy configurations in the past. You would simply have to reset the recptacle. Other than any obvious conditions, there could be loose connections(common with older aluminum wiring) that have burnt off in a junction box somewhere. These loose connections are the common cause of electrical fires.
Whatever you do, respect the voltage
Lights aren't typically on GFI's, receptacles only.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:25 AM   #36
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DT!

Turns out the stab in neutral in one of the garage outlets (original to the house) was loose, outlet was replaced, wires freshly stripped, screwed in and ta da! This was the fourth item on the chain out from the box.


Back in business...

Must have been a total moron that wired the house! Lights and receptacles don't share circuits.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:50 AM   #37
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Must have been a total moron that wired the house! Lights and receptacles don't share circuits.
You should see my house. The worst thing the builder did, though, was to run most of the wiring in the outside nook between the joists and rafters without using nail plates to protect the wiring from roofing nails. I've already found one abandoned piece that I'm sure was pierced by roofing.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:26 AM   #38
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You should see my house. The worst thing the builder did, though, was to run most of the wiring in the outside nook between the joists and rafters without using nail plates to protect the wiring from roofing nails. I've already found one abandoned piece that I'm sure was pierced by roofing.
Sorry to hear that! I'm surprised the building inspector let it pass.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:31 AM   #39
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Lights and receptacles can be on the same circuit in order to save wire and panel space. For instance, hall lights and receptacles could be on the same circuit as the adjacent bedroom lights and receptacles. Typically you are aloud 80% branch circuit loading with the amout of devices. A 15A breaker will have no more than a dozen devices, depending of course on the rules for each device(arc flash cirucuits etc).

When running the circuits for a hallway bathroom, as an example, you can use the circuit from the hallway run into a GFI receptacle in the bathroom and feed the fan and lights from the load side of that GFI. All three of those devices would count into the 80% loading, or 12 devices. This can be done for outside receptacles too, as long as the first one is GFI and the remaining receptales are wired to the load side.

Circuit loading has rules according to CEC and NEC, but that youcan load them less, such as circuits for entertainment areas and such where you know you will be plugging in alot of devices.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:51 AM   #40
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The place I used to work at needed a new roof. They used HUGE screws about 4" long to pierce the old metal roof. Sure was fun when they hit some EMT and tripped some circuit breakers! 277VAC and 120VAC. Roofing is dangerous! Then we got to fix it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:17 AM   #41
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Lights and receptacles can be on the same circuit in order to save wire and panel space. For instance, hall lights and receptacles could be on the same circuit as the adjacent bedroom lights and receptacles. Typically you are aloud 80% branch circuit loading with the amout of devices. A 15A breaker will have no more than a dozen devices, depending of course on the rules for each device(arc flash cirucuits etc).

When running the circuits for a hallway bathroom, as an example, you can use the circuit from the hallway run into a GFI receptacle in the bathroom and feed the fan and lights from the load side of that GFI. All three of those devices would count into the 80% loading, or 12 devices. This can be done for outside receptacles too, as long as the first one is GFI and the remaining receptales are wired to the load side.

Circuit loading has rules according to CEC and NEC, but that youcan load them less, such as circuits for entertainment areas and such where you know you will be plugging in alot of devices.
Commercial/industrial is where my expertise/experience is. Inspectors will not allow lights and receptacles on the same circuit in any circumstance. NEC here in the states is interpreted locally. All receptacles will be on a 20 @ breaker with 12 gauge wire. Light circuits may use a 15@ breaker provided the wire is 14 gauge. We normally use 110 volt for office lights and receptacles. In Canada you use 230 eh?
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:20 AM   #42
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The place I used to work at needed a new roof. They used HUGE screws about 4" long to pierce the old metal roof. Sure was fun when they hit some EMT and tripped some circuit breakers! 277VAC and 120VAC. Roofing is dangerous! Then we got to fix it.
I love three phase!
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #43
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Commercial/industrial is where my expertise/experience is. Inspectors will not allow lights and receptacles on the same circuit in any circumstance. NEC here in the states is interpreted locally. All receptacles will be on a 20 @ breaker with 12 gauge wire. Light circuits may use a 15@ breaker provided the wire is 14 gauge. We normally use 110 volt for office lights and receptacles. In Canada you use 230 eh?
Thats right, the Industrial/Commercial is bond by more strict regulations and the in-house inspection teams are trusted to find and document deficiencies. Sad to say, the residental sector has a few holes in it.
..and then automotive wiring breaks all the rules of physics
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:19 PM   #44
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Commercial/industrial is where my expertise/experience is. Inspectors will not allow lights and receptacles on the same circuit in any circumstance. NEC here in the states is interpreted locally. All receptacles will be on a 20 @ breaker with 12 gauge wire. Light circuits may use a 15@ breaker provided the wire is 14 gauge. We normally use 110 volt for office lights and receptacles. In Canada you use 230 eh?
Here at work a lot of our fluorescent lighting is 277.

Shortly after we moved into the remodeled building, one of the overhead lights shorted with a quick blue flash, then the whole production area downstairs shut down. Seems they had GFCI on a main breaker down below, but had a low setpoint such that one shorted fluorescent light in an office killed half the building.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:19 PM   #45
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Sorry to hear that! I'm surprised the building inspector let it pass.
I imagine a lot of stuff passed in 1959.
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