ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-14-2013, 10:39 AM   #31
GoonerYoda
Hot Dickens Cider
 
GoonerYoda's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Wine Country, CA
Oddometer: 505
The new Bonnie's are "souless".
GoonerYoda is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 11:08 AM   #32
skysailor OP
Rat Rider
 
skysailor's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Kenora, Canada
Oddometer: 3,301
I'm having a very hard time NOT buying a new Sportster, putting Progressive suspension on it and taking advantage of the best dealer network anywhere. Pity they eat their young (by referring to it as a "chick" bike) and Harley guys only pay attention to the "big" twins. Like I care who notices?
skysailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 11:17 AM   #33
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,104
I found it so.
Not that I think oil leaks and parts wearing out early is what soul is about, not that I had problems with my 79 Bonnevilles, they were very good when newer.
I say soul is how much fun a bike is to ride, performance aside, because you can not always use performance.
Its the sound and feel of a bike, how it responds to your inputs.
Take an old Triumph Daytona down a dirt road fast, it just feels and sounds SO cool, and is so much fun. Is it like a KTM? No way.
This is why Harley sells so many bikes, even though some of them are very poor as a practical motorcycle.

The new Bonneville stock, is somewhat like an electric motor in a bike, its very quiet and smooth, the bike is heavy if you are used to 400 pound Bonnevilles, it does not shake and snort/yell if you push it hard.
You can fit a better exhaust system to get a good sound, but I hear the Guzzi sounds very good stock.

I never rode A V7, so I know nothing but what I read, but its light, it shakes a little, it makes very good sounds, and it looks great to me.
Like all new bikes, it likely needs suspension work and maybe a better seat to be great, but its starting from a much lighter point which will make it easy to deal with and nimble in turns.


My Bonneville always ran great, gave me no problems at all, had more then enough power to get the job done, had good range, nice cast wheels, and was a very solid motorcycle. A practical choice.
I was just too used to the old ones.
And the stock seats DO suck big time...

Now the new Bonnevilles have been out a long time, and used ones will be around and cheap. V7's, not so much, plus, they keep getting better, the new ones have metal tanks, engine changes, more power and more model choices.

The new Bonneville gets a bigger motor (I would have gone the other way) and fuel injection that has modern carb looking throttle bodys.
Why make a FI system LOOK like a crappy vacuum carb? They could have made it look like an old Amal carb...
Don't mind the carbs, they are easy to tune and trouble free, and inexpensive to fix.





Quote:
Originally Posted by GoonerYoda View Post
The new Bonnie's are "souless".
NJ-Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #34
Super Sneaky Steve
B@nned Club :D
 
Super Sneaky Steve's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Oddometer: 3,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by skysailor View Post
I'm having a very hard time NOT buying a new Sportster, putting Progressive suspension on it and taking advantage of the best dealer network anywhere. Pity they eat their young (by referring to it as a "chick" bike) and Harley guys only pay attention to the "big" twins. Like I care who notices?
You won't get that treatment at your local Yamaha dealer picking up your new Bolt. Just sayin...



But really I'm with you. A 48 with better suspenders and a larger tank might sell me if not for the crowd.
Super Sneaky Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 09:14 AM   #35
pm9654
Gnarly Adventurer
 
pm9654's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Oddometer: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoonerYoda View Post
The new Bonnie's are "souless".
Wow. To each their own I guess.

Picked up a '12 T100, popped on some NH Toga's, and to me, it's got more "soul" then any bike I have ever owned. And I've had a lot of them.

I was tempted by the V7. I like the idea of a shaft instead of a chain, but the Bonneville just fit me better. Really dig the 48 Sporty, and have had a couple Sportsters over the years. But the suspension is brutal on those. (although let's face it, most stock suspensions suck on this kind of bike) I guess after owning a couple HD's over the years, I've gotten a little bored with the whole HD experience. The Bolt seems nice, but it just didn't do it for me. I also like the new Honda, just not as much as the Bonneville I bought!
__________________
BATMAN

pm9654 screwed with this post 05-22-2013 at 09:26 AM
pm9654 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 10:33 AM   #36
Pokeyjoe
Aprilia Dorsoduro
 
Pokeyjoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoonerYoda View Post
The new Bonnie's are "souless".
Triumph has actually engineered the soul out of their bikes. Balance shafts and silky smooth acceleration have been the standard since they've had to complete with the bikes from the other side of the world. I had a 2007 Scrambler and a 2010 Street Triple R. Both fine bikes by any measurement, but no soul. My V7, on the other hand, is all soul. A little quirky, perhaps, but all the controls are in the right places and everything works as one would expect. What one does not expect is the wonderful behavior of an old school engine design. We miss it, we want it, and, with the V7, we get it. Moto Guzzi keeps making "improvements", though. The new 2013s are just a little more refined than the previous generation. Those that buy them claim they are the best ever, but how do you define "best"? At some point, you have to draw a line in the sand and say, "Enough improvements!" This is the real difficulty of producing a "retro" bike. We want old school, but we want reliability, disc brakes, and electronic ignition. And oh, by the way, the bike needs to be able to compete in the marketplace. In that regard, I believe Moto Guzzi has done a better job than Triumph.
Pokeyjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 10:47 AM   #37
quasigentrified
Cityfolk
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 623
i cannot seem to adapt to the clutch on the v7 stone -- i swear, it seems to have the tightest and wonkiest friction zone of any of the bikes i've ridden. this can probably chalked up to n00bness, but man, the bonnie is WAY easier for me to ride.
quasigentrified is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 11:11 AM   #38
Robert OK
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Robert OK's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Deadford, NY
Oddometer: 416
I think this "soul" stuff is a pile. Depends what movies/tv shows you've watched, books you've read, what you ate for breakfast, the stuff in your head that you bring to the table.

So ineffable. Might as well say you like it or don't like it. Just a bunch of "mysto" mumbo jumbo shrouding your personal taste. Either that or you just purchased a crappy bike and the only way you can live with yourself is to say the bike has "soul".
Robert OK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 12:27 PM   #39
motorat
Studly Adventurer
 
motorat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: redwood coast, nor cal
Oddometer: 803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert OK View Post
I think this "soul" stuff is a pile. Depends what movies/tv shows you've watched, books you've read, what you ate for breakfast, the stuff in your head that you bring to the table.

So ineffable. Might as well say you like it or don't like it. Just a bunch of "mysto" mumbo jumbo shrouding your personal taste. Either that or you just purchased a crappy bike and the only way you can live with yourself is to say the bike has "soul".

exactly!
when i read about the character and soul of a bike that translates to me as problems that you have to live with.
i was looking at the v7 but after reading about the character of the bike i got the bonneville beacuse i ride alot (18k a year) and don't want to fix the soul of the bike. i just want to put miles on it. i know several people that have over 100k miles on their bonnies with just regular maintence.

the v7 is still a stunner to look at, and i love the guzzi sound.
__________________
to ignore the facts does not change the facts
motorat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 12:39 PM   #40
Pokeyjoe
Aprilia Dorsoduro
 
Pokeyjoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert OK View Post
I think this "soul" stuff is a pile. Depends what movies/tv shows you've watched, books you've read, what you ate for breakfast, the stuff in your head that you bring to the table.

So ineffable. Might as well say you like it or don't like it. Just a bunch of "mysto" mumbo jumbo shrouding your personal taste. Either that or you just purchased a crappy bike and the only way you can live with yourself is to say the bike has "soul".
Please discuss the bikes and not the comments.
Pokeyjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 12:59 PM   #41
Randy
Beastly Adventurer
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Newnan, GA USA
Oddometer: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve View Post
You won't get that treatment at your local Yamaha dealer picking up your new Bolt. Just sayin...



But really I'm with you. A 48 with better suspenders and a larger tank might sell me if not for the crowd.

After years spent riding and hating anything to do with HD, I finally grew up and realized that I don't ride for the "crowd". I ride for me!

Once I let go of my prejudice and gave the Sportster an honest try, and took my first ever test ride on a HD, I found that I really enjoyed it. Now, after well over 30 years of riding, and currently owning 7 bikes, I find myself thinking that my 48 is my favorite! I've upgraded the suspension a little, and plan to upgrade again to better shocks a little later on, but it's already so much better than stock that it's unreal. For me personally, it's the best looking and most satisfying bike to ride that I've ever had the pleasure of riding or owning.

With all that said, I'll add that it isn't my only bike and in all honesty, as much as I enjoy riding it, it isn't a "do it all" machine for me. I use it for my shorter local rides. If taking a "trip" I'll still brush the cobwebs off the GS. But in my real life, with my schedule and family commitments, the way I actually find myself riding most often, and not just dreaming about, it fits PERFECTLY!

__________________
"some might call it a 'midlife crisis', I prefer to call it a renaissance of thought and action"... "Life is too short to do anything other than that about which you are absolutely passionate."..."Adventure is a frame of mind, set upon by action, not defined by equipment."..."It all boils down to your ability to say "SCREW IT" and really mean it"....Randy

Randy screwed with this post 05-22-2013 at 01:26 PM
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 02:50 PM   #42
Randy
Beastly Adventurer
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Newnan, GA USA
Oddometer: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert OK View Post
I think this "soul" stuff is a pile. Depends what movies/tv shows you've watched, books you've read, what you ate for breakfast, the stuff in your head that you bring to the table.

So ineffable. Might as well say you like it or don't like it. Just a bunch of "mysto" mumbo jumbo shrouding your personal taste. Either that or you just purchased a crappy bike and the only way you can live with yourself is to say the bike has "soul".
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorat View Post
exactly!
when i read about the character and soul of a bike that translates to me as problems that you have to live with.
i was looking at the v7 but after reading about the character of the bike i got the bonneville beacuse i ride alot (18k a year) and don't want to fix the soul of the bike. i just want to put miles on it. i know several people that have over 100k miles on their bonnies with just regular maintence.

the v7 is still a stunner to look at, and i love the guzzi sound.

Character - the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.


First I'd say that it isn't a "pile". It is the things about any particular bike that rubs the owner/rider the right way. The part that affects the emotional pleasure centers. If you think that is a "pile" then you are sadly missing out on what many find to be the most satisfying part of motorcycling. If a motorcycle is simple an appliance to you... a means of transporting yourself from point A to point B, then so be it, but there are great many of us that care not for the destination so much as the experience we have in between the two points. And there are some of us, myself included, that find the visceral sensations that certain motorcycles bring us to be an essential part of the experience.

EVERYTHING about us is due to out experiences... As you said, "movies/tv shows you've watched, books you've read, what you ate for breakfast, the stuff in your head that you bring to the table." That's what makes us, "US". But the, "Just a bunch of "mysto" mumbo jumbo shrouding your personal taste" part? It isn't "shrouding" our personal taste. It DEFINES it. I've been riding for close to 35 years. I've ridden all sorts of bikes, good and bad, and enjoyed most of them. But there are some that have a certain set of features and/or traits, that make them much more fulfilling to ride for me personally. Those are the ones that I say have "character" or "soul". I think by now I've sorta figured out what I like. And a bike devoid of anything I define as character and/or soul, just ain't it...

Maybe it's like pornography, hard to define but ya know it when ya see it....

Perhaps you're a prime candidate for an electric bike once they have made it beyond their current hurdles.

Here's a recent post I made in the "Zero Electric" thread that mirrors that thought:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
I guess I'm just a throw back to an earlier era, but for me personally, nothing could be more boring than a silent electric motorcycle. For my personal enjoyment a HUGE part of the experience is the visceral feelings that come from an internal combustion engine. I hate inline fours and love my twins for much the same reason. My favorite bikes to ride are currently my Ducati, HD Sportster, and Buell S1. Why, you ask? Because of the SOUND of thunder and FEELING of Thor himself hammering at the underside of my seat with each power pulse of the engine. I can't imagine anything more boring than the smooth silent propulsion of an efficient electric drive. Maybe technology can one day allow for helmet mounted acoustic "enhancement", and the speed controller can be manipulated by an onboard ECM to introduce "power pulses" into the equation. But until then, electric just won't tickle my fancy like a good gas burning twin...


Secondly, why do some people equate "character" or "soul" with negatives? Read the definition again and see where that part come in to it. I don't see it there.

Ever know someone that was said to have no personality? Just a bland individual, devoid of "character" or personality? Ever know another that was said to have a "lot of personality"? Someone that was the life of the party and brought good feelings to those around them? Maybe deep down one was just as "good" as the other... Same with bikes, IMO. There are TONS of very good bikes out there... I'd even say that these days MOST of them are "good" bikes. But some of them are just bland as hell to ride to me and there are a few that make me smile in ways that those others can't. There are good bikes that have character, and there are bad bikes that have character. Same with bland bikes too. I don't want a bland bike either way. But, of course I don't really want a bad bike either. But given the choice between a good, bland appliance, and a good bike with "soul", I'd the latter any day of the week.


__________________
"some might call it a 'midlife crisis', I prefer to call it a renaissance of thought and action"... "Life is too short to do anything other than that about which you are absolutely passionate."..."Adventure is a frame of mind, set upon by action, not defined by equipment."..."It all boils down to your ability to say "SCREW IT" and really mean it"....Randy

Randy screwed with this post 05-22-2013 at 02:56 PM
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 03:30 PM   #43
Robert OK
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Robert OK's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Deadford, NY
Oddometer: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
Character - the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.


... bunch of windy stuff


Yeah, I like some bikes better than others too. Some days I like the same bike better than other days. And all my bikes hate me because they think I may trade them in on an electric model when it gets beyond its current hurdles.

Sorry don't see the soul part. As far as character in characteristics, even my toaster has that. I don't buy the conflation of character and soul.

No I've never known anyone with "no personality" or someone with a "lot of personality" and I was born yesterday. Seriously?
Robert OK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:33 PM   #44
Randy
Beastly Adventurer
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Newnan, GA USA
Oddometer: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert OK View Post
Yeah, I like some bikes better than others too. Some days I like the same bike better than other days. And all my bikes hate me because they think I may trade them in on an electric model when it gets beyond its current hurdles.

Sorry don't see the soul part. As far as character in characteristics, even my toaster has that. I don't buy the conflation of character and soul.

No I've never known anyone with "no personality" or someone with a "lot of personality" and I was born yesterday. Seriously?
Well then I pity you, and I'm really glad that I'm not missing out on the things that make ME enjoy MY motorcycling experience...

Simply put, not all people experience things, or even life itself, in the same way. There is actually a great disparity in sensual experience among humans. Some "get it" and others simply do not. But just because you don't doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. But I have a feeling that you don't get that either... So, fuck it. You enjoy what you enjoy and I'll do the same, but all the same some bikes bore the living shit out of me because they have no character, soul, personality... whatever you call it, it's a trait that makes some bikes enjoyable to ME, and others that lack it, less so...

And yes, seriously...
__________________
"some might call it a 'midlife crisis', I prefer to call it a renaissance of thought and action"... "Life is too short to do anything other than that about which you are absolutely passionate."..."Adventure is a frame of mind, set upon by action, not defined by equipment."..."It all boils down to your ability to say "SCREW IT" and really mean it"....Randy
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:55 PM   #45
Robert OK
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Robert OK's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Deadford, NY
Oddometer: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
Well then I pity you, and I'm really glad that I'm not missing out on the things that make ME enjoy MY motorcycling experience...

Simply put, not all people experience things, or even life itself, in the same way. There is actually a great disparity in sensual experience among humans. Some "get it" and others simply do not. But just because you don't doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. But I have a feeling that you don't get that either... So, fuck it. You enjoy what you enjoy and I'll do the same, but all the same some bikes bore the living shit out of me because they have no character, soul, personality... whatever you call it, it's a trait that makes some bikes enjoyable to ME, and others that lack it, less so...

And yes, seriously...
The "seriously" comment was addressed to the edifying observation that some people appear to have a lot of personality and some don't.

I'd guess you were an elementary school teacher that didn't spend a lot of time around adults. Throw in a "fuck it" and "shit" for cred.
Robert OK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014