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Old 09-17-2013, 01:21 PM   #46
roger 04 rt OP
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I believe that Beemer boneyard is going to be getting a shipment of BMW-AF-XIEDs.

Jscottyk has been doing pretty well with his.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:51 AM   #47
mapa63
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DJs O2 sensor?

Hi Roger!

If I was to change my PCV + AT for this stuff, can I find a use for the wideband O2-sensor that is already mounted?

I studied the maps at megasquirt, they where much richer when accelerating and much leaner when cruising, compared to DJs map...

Best regards,
Mats
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:39 AM   #48
roger 04 rt OP
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Hi Roger!

If I was to change my PCV + AT for this stuff, can I find a use for the wideband O2-sensor that is already mounted?

I studied the maps at megasquirt, they where much richer when accelerating and much leaner when cruising, compared to DJs map...

Best regards,
Mats
Hi Matts, The BMW-AF-XIED only works with the stock Narrowband O2 sensor. This is its main advantage since most don't already have the Wideband sensor, and the Wideband sensor is considered less reliable overall than the Narrowband. And using the stock sensor makes it about 1/10 the effort to install.

A Wideband sensor requires a controller in order to function and to have its results be proportional to the exhaust gas chemistry.

I welded an extra O2 sensor bung close to the stock bung so that I could test other systems against the LC-1 that I run. You could do that and use the PC-V to monitor the mixture while you used the BMW-AF-XIED to control Closed Loop mixture--but that's a bit of overkill. RB
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:45 AM   #49
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Just fitted a BMW AF-XIED to Mrs Quirky's F700GS, already had the Power Controller temperature confuser/reducer fitted.

I've had a little ride and must say that it's loving that extra bit of fuel. She is impressed by the change in exhaust sound- I kid you not it's just seems a little deeper and crisper. Thanks for your efforts Roger.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:05 AM   #50
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Just fitted a BMW AF-XIED to Mrs Quirky's F700GS, already had the Power Controller temperature confuser/reducer fitted.

I've had a little ride and must say that it's loving that extra bit of fuel. She is impressed by the change in exhaust sound- I kid you not it's just seems a little deeper and crisper. Thanks for your efforts Roger.
I haven't mentioned it but many bikes seems to get a slightly deeper, richer exhaust-note when they richen the mixture. I have the mixture on my dual-spark R1150 set to 13.5:1 right now and the exhaust has a nice husky sound.

Congrats on getting one of the first BMS-K units. What setting do you have the BMW-AF-XIED set to?
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:40 AM   #51
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Running at 7, seems real good. Pulls much better from low revs and the engine vibrations up and over 5 000rpm are much much less annoying.

Ripped the PC-V out of the 1200GS and fitted the AF-XIED on it. Temperature sensor adjuster still in the mail.
Currently running at 7 also. Full Staintune exhaust system and is running pretty good with exhaust restricter fitted. Bonus, not running crazy rich fuel exhaust gases any more at start up in the shed. Removal of the end can restricter upsets its smoothness a fair bit. Maybe I need to lean it off a tad more.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:52 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
Running at 7, seems real good. Pulls much better from low revs and the engine vibrations up and over 5 000rpm are much much less annoying.

Ripped the PC-V out of the 1200GS and fitted the AF-XIED on it. Temperature sensor adjuster still in the mail.
Currently running at 7 also. Full Staintune exhaust system and is running pretty good with exhaust restricter fitted. Bonus, not running crazy rich fuel exhaust gases any more at start up in the shed. Removal of the end can restricter upsets its smoothness a fair bit. Maybe I need to lean it off a tad more.
On my R1150RT, which is stock, it keeps running better up to the LC-1 equivalent of S8 (or even S9). I'm currently riding with a mixture of 13.5:1 and enjoying it a lot. These beemers do like just a bit more fuel.

The guys who've reported back on the R1200 with LC-1 or BMW-AF-XIED have told me that performance continues to improve for several tanks of gasoline as the Adaptation process continues to improve. The owner of Beemerboneyard has the BMW-AF-XIED on his modified-R1200R and continued to see improvements for 8-10 tanks of fuel. This was a surprise but he was pretty certain of it.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:13 AM   #53
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Thanks for the info mate. Will try going 8 or 9 then on the 1200 and see what happens.

Cheers
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:02 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
Running at 7, seems real good. Pulls much better from low revs and the engine vibrations up and over 5 000rpm are much much less annoying.

Ripped the PC-V out of the 1200GS and fitted the AF-XIED on it. Temperature sensor adjuster still in the mail.
Currently running at 7 also. Full Staintune exhaust system and is running pretty good with exhaust restricter fitted. Bonus, not running crazy rich fuel exhaust gases any more at start up in the shed. Removal of the end can restricter upsets its smoothness a fair bit. Maybe I need to lean it off a tad more.
I spent most of the beta test miles at 7 on my 800GS. A fair amount at 8 as well. Setting 8 is just more of the same! I'll probably us setting 7 on trips when I want to maximize MPG while still having smooth throttle response. Setting 8 when I'm doing spirited backroad riding. It's easy to switch between the two.

While I have not done any dyno runs (plenty of conversation of the pros/cons of such over in the Power Commander thread) I can say my F800GS with a LV slip-on finally take fuel properly. Smooth and responsive. It's also been interesting to watch the BMS-K adapt (via the GS-911 data) and feel better on each ride.

This is easily the most impressive modification I have made to my F800GS. It's an easy install plus it allows the BMS-K to continue to operate as it's designed. Very trick!

Many thanks to Roger and nightrider.com for working through all the technical details to make this possible.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:18 PM   #55
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excited to receive and install the AF-XIED from nightrider on the 800GS.

very appreciative of all the work roger and others put into this.
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:07 AM   #56
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Installed this module today and wow, what a difference! Throttle response is a lot smoother and the bike in general runs a lot smoother.
It's obvious the f800gs really likes to run richer and like jscottyk said, the most impressive is the low speed stuff (going offroad at very low speeds seems a lot easier now).

Will be testing the different settings soon but I'm already very impressed by the BMW-AF-XIED!

Even with the extra $65 taxes I paid, it's still a lot cheaper than for example the power commander. Made by advriders, for advriders!
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:58 PM   #57
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Test Unit Available

jscottyk is about to ship the beta unit back. Although we're in production now if anyone would like to try the beta unit (not as pretty as a production model ;) ), please PM me.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:25 PM   #58
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I'm hoping to understand more about this system. I'm not hugely familiar with the F800 engine but I've been doing calibration work for over a decade. Typically the ECU is in open loop during rapid acceleration and throttle position greater than about 75%. If that's the case on the F800 (I'd be very surprised if it wasn't) such a system would have no impact on throttle response. During closed loop operation (near steady-state) there is no advantage to an excessively rich air fuel ratio. I spend a good chunk of each day sitting in front of a dyno cell and in my experience best power is found at lambda =.990-.995. Miller cycle is a bit closer to .990. It also corresponds to lowest intake manifold pressure at for a given BMEP, which is consistent.

I'm not trying to discount any of these first hand experiences. Just trying to understand what's at play.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #59
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I'm hoping to understand more about this system. I'm not hugely familiar with the F800 engine but I've been doing calibration work for over a decade. Typically the ECU is in open loop during rapid acceleration and throttle position greater than about 75%. If that's the case on the F800 (I'd be very surprised if it wasn't) such a system would have no impact on throttle response. During closed loop operation (near steady-state) there is no advantage to an excessively rich air fuel ratio. I spend a good chunk of each day sitting in front of a dyno cell and in my experience best power is found at lambda =.990-.995. Miller cycle is a bit closer to .990. It also corresponds to lowest intake manifold pressure at for a given BMEP, which is consistent.

I'm not trying to discount any of these first hand experiences. Just trying to understand what's at play.
On my R1150 which I've measured extensively, once the engine is warmed up, it is in Closed Loop operation when a couple conditions are met: the throttle is relatively steady and it is less that 23 degrees open. For practical purposes, this means it is in Closed Loop for most steady speeds. When I log closed loop, it occurs about half the time on a local ride. More on the highway.

My reading, data and experience says that you get the greatest torque (or HP or BMEP) at around lambda 0.95 to 0.90, I think you have an extra 9 in your number. I run 6% rich (lambda 0.94) which isn't at all excessively rich. Excessive might be at 0.85 or 15% extra fuel.

The main reason for running lambda 1.00 (stock, 14.7:1) is that it is best for the catalytic converter's efficiency. That is also the hottest exhaust.

In an ideal two cylinder engine, the air and fuel would be perfectly equal in each cylinder. On the R1100/1150 you can tweak the air pretty good but there are no provisions to adjust fuel, leading to AFR imbalances in some engines (the R1200 fixed this with dual O2 sensors). Since the AFRs aren't precisely balanced you can smooth the engine and restore power balance by reducing lambda which means slightly richening the mixture.

Here is an explanation of why the I found through the GAMI.com web site:

In theory, the "ideal" mixture for our engines is about 14.7 parts air and 1 part fuel (by weight), which should result in no oxygen and no unburned fuel molecules going out the exhaust pipe. But we've long known that a slightly richer mixture would produce slightly more power. Why? Because the theory breaks down a little when the charge contains those little pockets of varying fuel-air mixtures. Some of the oxygen molecules do not find fuel molecules quickly enough to burn, and they remain unused or unburned at the ideal ratio. By supplying just a bit more fuel for the lonely oxygen molecules, more total fuel is burned, a bit more heat is generated, and less oxygen escapes out the exhaust pipe without having had a chance to mate.

That's a start of the reason why a bit of richness makes these engines better.
Rb
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:31 PM   #60
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What are the long term consequences to the life of the cat converter, when running a richer mixture? Does it simply become less efficient, or can it possibly get plugged up?

Jeff
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